Here's a guy that won't be ERing

[bosco]

This is the first part of an article from my old home-time paper, the Juneau Empire.

Can't wait to hear how the free-market zealots spin this one. How much longer is the US going to tolerate the shame of this kind of treatment of its citizenry?

Cab driver who jumped off bridge faced cancer
55-year-old lacked money to fight his illness

By TONY CARROLL
JUNEAU EMPIRE

A 55-year-old Juneau man who died Monday evening after leaping from the Douglas Bridge was facing cancer and didn't have the money to learn if surgery could help, according to the office manager at the cab company for which he drove.

James P. Sullivan "was a real good guy," said Mike Laflin of Capital Cab. "When he got mad, he just would say, 'I'm mad.' He never spoke ill of anyone.

But Laflin said Sullivan had learned he had cancer and that it would cost him $10,000 just to find out if it was operable. Sullivan also had glaucoma, Laflin said. When he sought help paying for medical costs, he was told he would have to be destitute to receive public assistance, his boss added.

Police, who ruled the death a suicide, released Sullivan's identity early Tuesday after notifying relatives in Michigan. Witnesses said he jumped from the bridge into Gastineau Channel shortly before 7 p.m. Monday.

Boaters found Sullivan floating face-down after he jumped, and that they unsuccessfully tried to get him out of the water before a U.S. Coast Guard rescue boat pulled him out, officers said.

Coast Guardsmen said Sullivan still had a pulse and that they began cardiopulmonary resuscitation before arriving at the dock and handing him over to Capital City Fire and Rescue emergency medical technicians.

They were unable to revive Sullivan, who was pronounced dead at 7:17 p.m., 26 minutes after his fall.

[razztazz]

How will they spin it? "Choice". He chose* to get cancer.
He chose to kill himself. If he smoked they'll say "he chose to smoke and that's bad for you, he desrved to die" which is the exact same thing an anti big tobacco company Left* Winger would say.(*Funny how these things overlap from time to time)

Or he could have simply chosen to be Rich like everybody else and avoid these problems

And they'll stand there grinning moronilly and say "What..? Don't tell me there was't something besides cab driver he could have chosen?"

Then continue by accusing you of liking Bill and Hillary and suggesting you move to Cuba or Sweden ... higher taxes... hey buddy life ain't fair...."

That's how they see it

[OldAgePensioner]

I must be ill informed but I thought hospitals had an obligation to treat you regardless of ability to pay.

Isn't that the case? I figured you'd get the treatment and then the doctor and hospital would try to collect but never be able to.

[razztazz]

I must be ill informed but I thought hospitals had an obligation to treat you regardless of ability to pay.

Isn't that the case?* I figured you'd get the treatment and then the doctor and hospital would try to collect but never be able to.*

No that would be universal access to health care. What you're referring to is "Emergency" stuff. If you slip in the bathtub and sustain a head injury or are in a car wreck requiring* emergency rtreatment, they can no longer let you bleed to death in the parking lot.

[samclem]

Right. Government should definitely stop people from making irrational decisions.

-- bosco--since you are from this place, can you provide any background on this bridge-o-death the government constructed? What type of place is this--shouldn't bridges be made like Habitrail tubes, so people can't plunge to their deaths? Maybe we can retrofit with Nerf platforms beneath them.

Destitute people can get free care. Non-destitute people can get care paid for if they are insured. Non-destitute, non-insured people have to pay for their care--until they are destitute. This individual evidently decided to kill himself rather than do anything else. Which is sad-but who can say what other issues were involved. I'm not sure that lack of an intrusive nanny-state is the ultimate cause of incidents like these.

He was right next door to Canada, I wonder why he just didn't hop on over and become a citizen, get free health care and pastries for life--are they shutting the door on the world's most needy people?

[razztazz]

Right. Government should definitely stop people from making irrational decisions.

-- bosco--since you are from this place, can you provide any background on this bridge-o-death the government constructed? What type of place is this--shouldn't bridges be made like Habitrail tubes, so people can't plunge to their deaths? Maybe we can retrofit with Nerf platforms beneath them.

Destitute people can get free care. Non-destitute people can get care paid for if they are insured. Non-destitute, non-insured people have to pay for their care--until they are destitute. This individual evidently decided to kill himself rather than do anything else. Which is sad-but who can say what other issues were involved. I'm not sure that lack of an intrusive nanny-state is the ultimate cause of incidents like these.

He was right next door to Canada, I wonder why he just didn't hop on over and become a citizen, get free health care and pastries for life--are they shutting the door on the world's most needy people?

What did I tell you? Pfffffft........Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .. Too easy. Must be remote controlled.. J..H... C!

[samclem]

Originally Posted by razztazz

What did I tell you? Pfffffft........Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .. Too easy. Must be remote controlled.. J..H... C!

Hey, it was nearly two hours later--hardly Pavlovian!!

[bosco]

Originally Posted by samclem

Non-destitute, non-insured people have to pay for their care--until they are destitute. This individual evidently decided to kill himself rather than do anything else.

Maybe he had a family and couldn't stand the thought of spending everything they owned on something that may fail and leave them both without any assets and without any earning ability.

This is my point. Doesn't it just somewhat suck a little teeny bit that people in the US have to make those kind of choices?

Oh, forgot. Choice is good.

[bosco]

Originally Posted by samclem

He was right next door to Canada, I wonder why he just didn't hop on over and become a citizen, get free health care and pastries for life--are they shutting the door on the world's most needy people?

yeah, guess he should have had the foresight to choose to be born in Canada.

To give a somewhat serious response to a flippant comment, the US has more uninsured people than Canada has population. While Canada's immigration policy is fairly liberal, cab drivers are not on the list of needed occupations, and 55 year olds have difficulty gaining enough points to successfully immigrate. And finally, immigrants have to have a physical and prove that they will not be a long-term burden to the health care system.

Your comment seems to boil down to unadulterated rancor. Typical tactics--don't look directly at a problem, rather point a misdirecting finger somewhere else.

But razz-tazz was right--although he mentioned Sweden or Cuba, I give him 9 1/2 out of 10. Nice job!

[samclem]

I think it's too bad that anybody has to pay for anything. I've seen the light: Choice is bad. Paternalism is good. We must be protected from ourselves.

I need some Soma . . .


Seriously, health care is likely not amenable to a total free market solution. We just need to figure out how to keep key elements of individual responsibility and the cost containment the free market brings to nearly every other aspect of our economy to the health care sphere. BTW, the system in the US, with linkages to employment, tax benefits that distort the market, etc can hardly be called a free market system today.

[samclem]

The incident cited n the OP is sad, but zooming in to one case may not help us understand the bigger issue of suicide in general. If this one case is attributed to the role of the US health care system, should we not also look for the role of government, in general, in the suicide rates of citizens?

Specifically, what is the Canadian government doing so differently than the US government that Canadian suicide rates top US suicide rates?

(The source cannot be disputed--it's from the WHO, an agency of the vaunted U.N.)

http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/

Shameful!!

[razztazz]

I think it's too bad that anybody has to pay for anything. *I've seen the light: Choice is bad. *Paternalism is good. *We must be protected from ourselves.

This is anothert tactic they use. Altho in this case I think it is just parroted without any understanding of or even any belief in the position stated.

What does anything in the above quote have to do with anything on this subject especially what has been said already in this thread?

Nothing.

It's just acid throwing, middle finger wagging, tantrum throwing, *and a really really unskilled use of words

It's just banging on pots and pans to change the subject or force eveyone else out of the room.

[samclem]

I think bosco got just what he wanted when he posted this, based on his lead-in. No complaints I hope.

[razztazz]

BTW, the system in the US, with linkages to employment, tax benefits that distort the market, etc can hardly be called a free market system today.*

Well at least THIS part is correct. BUT this is not the fault of the people. It's the fault of the Rich people and the government they purchase against the Public's Interest. If it's f--ked up THAT's who the problem has been.

Cheap for the business class, kickbacks on taxes.. a sort of golden handcuffs for the workers thus diminishing the free market in labor but what the f--k? It's only BUSINESS who needs to be free, right? Not workers.* All rigged for the benefit of the Merchant Class as Adam Smith would have derisively called them.

So don't blame people for not having insurance because it is not universally affordable or even obtainable for any amount of money. And dont blame people for trying to do something about it. DOING SOMETHING about "it" is the American Way.

Only certain concervatives/Royal Libertarian* money interests hate the thought of The People being truely free because it's bad for business.

[bosco]

Originally Posted by samclem

I think bosco got just what he wanted when he posted this, based on his lead-in. No complaints I hope.

To be truthful, I am not sure what I wanted. I am saddened by the story. I am not naive enough to believe that this suicide can be laid totally, or even necessarily mostly, at the doorstep of the US (lack of) medical care system. I believe that the vast majority of suicides are a form of, for lack of a better word, mental illness but I do believe that sometimes they are understandable and even rational acts. I don't know this person (Juneau is a town of 30,000 so there is a good chance I might have) or anything about his personal situation. I'm sure I could find out with a couple of phone calls.

However.....if I did get exactly what I wanted, then I would need to thank you for being so accomodating

I think what I wanted was perhaps to take a story that was very disturbing to me and see if a specific incident could put a more human face on the debate. No surprises in how that turned out, not excepting myself. But because it came from a place where I spent over half my life, it probably hits me with a much bigger impact even though I didn't know the man (I did, however, briefly drive cab for that company in 1977).

What is clear is that the present system in the US causes A LOT of stress for a lot of people, including many many people on this forum judging by the posts. No country has a perfect system. My aunt has irreperable damage to her heart because the waiting list in Canada didn't manage to get her into surgery in time. There is room for improvement everywhere. But it seems like, in many ways, the US has the worst of the worst for the poor and uninsured. And believe me, cab drivers in Juneau don't do any better than cab drivers anywhere else.

[OldAgePensioner]

It will be interesting to see if Juneau responds. They could have sent him to General Hospital here in SF for about a $400 airfare and he would have been taken care of.