Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
High Efficiency Furnace?
Old 05-06-2008, 02:08 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
High Efficiency Furnace?

OK, so we're well into this years home improvements and the current project is a total HVAC redo.

I've got one quote (for our 2 story 2600Sq Ft house) from a Trane dealer from the 93% AFUE high end furnace, A/C and coil for a mind blowing $10K. To which my wife and I just stared at each other in disbelief.

We just got another quote from the largest HVAC installer in Chicago for a Lennox unit which is only 80% efficient but would cost only $5600 installed, with everything. For $1500 more I can go with the 90% efficient. It seems that unless natural gas goes up a ton that the 90% doesn't make sense

What do the folks here think?
__________________

__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-06-2008, 02:16 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9 View Post

What do the folks here think?
I think you need at least one more bid...
__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 02:18 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
OAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,598
I have a 94% efficient gas furnace in central Ohio. I paid $792 for gas (past 12 months) in this three level condo with about 3800 SF heated. IMHO I would go with the highest efficient one you can afford - saves you money and adds to resale value. BTW our system is a Trane, but it came with the home so I am not sure what it cost.
__________________
Vietnam Veteran, CW4 USA, Retired 1979
OAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 02:34 PM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I think you need at least one more bid...
I got one from another company selling Lennox which was very close to the second bid in my first post. It was a few hundred bucks cheaper but the company had nowhere near the service capability or warranty as the one listed above.
__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 04:02 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,251
From what I have heard... Lennox is better than Trane...

I bought Trane as the bids were a LOT less about 15 years ago when I had it installed...

My suggestion is to get the 'second best' efficiency... for some reason, the best just is a lot higher than second.... and second is not a whole heck of a lot higher than 'standard'....
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 04:49 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Oh my, this oughta be good.

I just went through the furnace/ac replacement fiasco.

I replaced a 17 year old 100k btu 70% Payne (carrier contractor grade) with a 90k btu 80% two stage Carrier Infinity. It was substantially colder in January when the Payne was still in operation, yet my February and March gas bills with the new furnace were actually higher.

I'd check the rebates available from the manufacturer and from the utility companies, then check how much it'll knock off your gas bill over the next ten years. For me it was about an $80-100 a year benefit to go from the 80% to a 92-94% which would have cost me about $1200 more. I put that money towards a two stage variable fan system, which gives a lot more comfort.

Then make sure you dont have a dimensional problem. 90%+ furnaces have a secondary heat exchanger that can add a foot and a half of required space. They also cannot use your old vent for CO...they use a 3-4" pvc pipe that has to be vented through the roof or an exterior wall. If through a wall, make sure you know what the code requirements are for clearance. Around here the pipe has to protrude from the wall a distance further than any roof overhang and be a certain distance off the ground.

Then make sure you understand the increased complexity. The 90% units have two heat exchangers vs 1, a forced air venting system, and a lot of extra parts.

Installation wise, there seem to be some really top notch installers, a lot of guys who can get it hooked up and working but the quality of work leaves a lot to be desired, and a handful of guys that have no idea what they're doing.

Problem is, you cant tell the difference between them unless you know as much as the experts. Good luck getting help with the expert web sites...they dont think much of homeowners, and many of the sites prohibit discussing prices or how things exactly work with non tradespeople.

I went through a long vetting process of gathering word of mouth and recommendations from local discussion forums, weeding out companies with lots of BBB complaints, and then had 5 come out to the house. A few basically werent going to tell me what equipment they were recommending or how much it'd be due to some sort of fear that I'd use their quote to leverage someone else. Some wanted to send salesmen out to give me a 3 hour dog and pony show but without disclosing a quote unless I was willing to give them my business...before I knew what they'd be putting in.

Once I'd finally winnowed down the ones that actually would produce a quote...they were all around the same price.

The hard part was equalizing their quotes. Warranties all over the place, some stuff included and some not, some stuff that they would charge extra for if it took too long, etc.

Aside from your 90%+/80% question, heres what I learned and what I'd do again:

- Do not mix equipment from different companies...use the same brand for furnace, air conditioner, air cleaner, coil, thermostat etc. Just. Dont. Do. It.
- Most of the equipment is about the same in terms of quality. Carrier and Tranes top of the line setups have some comfort benefits but you'll pay for them.
- I'd get a unit with a variable speed fan before I'd spend the money on a 90%+ furnace and make sure I get a thermostat that will let me control it. We run ours 24x7 on low, it takes 80 watts of power, and we have no hot or cold spots in the house. The VS motors are very reliable and last a very long time, and use much less electricity.
- Make sure you get a FACTORY/MANUFACTURERS warranty for at least ten years for parts AND labor thats transferable to another dealer. I saw no end of shenanigans with warranties with offering parts only, or the labor was in there but only if you had it done by the installer, etc. No two were alike. Most will throw in the ten year manufacturers P&L warranty to get the business.
- Make sure your dealer is factory and NATE certified

Then put the cheapest thing in that you can get a quote on, and if the installer screws it up...the manufacturer will have to solve that since they certified them, and if it breaks for the next ten years, you're covered. If the installer cant perform to the warranty, move it to another company until you find one you like.

I picked a company with a great reputation thats been around a long time, bought high quality expensive equipment, and basically nobody at the place could find their ass even if they used both hands. After 2 months of screwing around with the equipment I made them remove everything and re-do it. Today I found out that they didnt submit the paperwork for my utility rebates and so far they're not returning my calls.

Were I to do it all over, I'd get a Goodman furnace with a VS fan, two stage since IIRC you live in a cold area with a long heating season. Find a factory authorized dealer thats NATE certified that gave me a low bid to install it, and get the 10 year P&L warranty. Goodman is a lot less expensive than the bigger brand names, has had some historical reliability issues but those are from many years back, and currently makes a very good furnace and excellent air conditioners. Their VS furnace uses the same motor and controller as my expensive carrier unit. They offer one of the best warranties in the business. Big problem is getting someone to quote you one...everyone carries Goodman and another big name brand like Lennox, Carrier or Trane and they'll all try to upsell you to the big name brand.

If you do fall in love with a Trane or Carrier, buy their sub-brand and save a thousand bucks. Trane is made by American Standard and the AS units are almost identical, yet cheaper. Carrier also makes Bryant and again the Bryant is identical but a lot cheaper.

If you're not excited about the Goodman option, look at a Bryant Evolution system. Most of the pro's like the Carrier Infinity/Bryant Evolution and the Rheem/Ruud Mod furnaces. The latter set are complicated to install, so make sure you get a dealer that knows them well and isnt going to use you for a guinea pig.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 05:00 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Oh, and theres something bogus about that $5600 Lennox quote. A basic system with an 80% single stage furnace, a 13 SEER air conditioner, matching coil, new line set, some rudimentary duct sealing, and startup should cost about $6500-7000 minimum.

Most of the quotes I got for an 80% two stage variable speed 14 SEER/coil setup with a good bit of duct sealing, a new line set and a few other extras were about $9000-9800.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 05:20 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
Oh, and theres something bogus about that $5600 Lennox quote. A basic system with an 80% single stage furnace, a 13 SEER air conditioner, matching coil, new line set, some rudimentary duct sealing, and startup should cost about $6500-7000 minimum.

Most of the quotes I got for an 80% two stage variable speed 14 SEER/coil setup with a good bit of duct sealing, a new line set and a few other extras were about $9000-9800.
CFB - Thanks for all the info, that was a lot to type.

As for the low price that's what I thought, until I got two quotes that were within $200 of each other.

It's for a variable speed lennox, with a new coil, new wire, hardware, pad, install, removal of old equipment, etc... I forgot to add that I did negotiate those prices. The final bid was from the largest Lennox dealer in the US. They have a 99.99% clean rating from the BBB and they are the largest HVAC company in Chicago so I assume they have to be somewhat honest.
__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 05:26 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Yeah, well I pulled my back out and have a little time on my hands.

Whats the warranty on that lennox quote? How many BTU/tons?

I wouldnt presume any honesty. They're mostly like car dealers, only less savory.

If you want to scan your quote and blur out all the personal info and send it to me, I'll be glad to check it out. Something is amiss...
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 05:41 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Good article. I agree with almost everything they say here...
Furnaces Reviews: Best Furnace - ConsumerSearch
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 07:38 PM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
Yeah, well I pulled my back out and have a little time on my hands.

Whats the warranty on that lennox quote? How many BTU/tons?

I wouldnt presume any honesty. They're mostly like car dealers, only less savory.

If you want to scan your quote and blur out all the personal info and send it to me, I'll be glad to check it out. Something is amiss...
I would just scan this, but the writing is too light to scan well in my office scanner.

Furnace - Lennox G60V 110,000BTU 80%AFUE Variable speed fan Warranty is 20 year parts, 20 year labor, 25 year heat exchanger

A/C = Lennox 13 ACD42 42,000 BTUs 14 SEER warranty is 12/12/12 (last being compressor)

Install includes, System evac, new low voltage wire, new pad, new refridge lines, new 60amp disconnect box, half inch heavy duty whip, new evaporator coil, new flue pipe, plenum transition, digital programmable thermostat, removal of old equipment.

Also, in May they are giving a free Lennox HC10 air filtration system. I also like that this company has 200 techs and gives a 2 hour emergency call warranty 365 days a year. If they don't come within 2 hours you get $500.

What do you think?
__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 08:18 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
We had a pretty good discussion of some pertinenet issues when CFB did his equipment replacement. Here's the thread (though he's given you some newer, more current data):

Air conditioning question


Small tips:

It may be useful for you to do a heat load calculation to figure out the proper size for your equipment--what you've got now might not be right, especially if the windows or insulation have been upgraded or there have been additions to your home since the furnace was installed. A bigger -than-needed furnace or A/C unit will not only cost more to purchase, but it will be less efficient to run and will also result in a less comfortable home. (more info at the link above).

I installed a Goodman furnace myself (93% eff) and have been very happy. I haven't done any work on the AC system--we have a 15 YO Lennox AC system that continues to run just fine, no need to mess with it yet.

Do the math for your area and utility rates, but a high efficiency furnace was the clear winner in our southern-Ohio location. Intangibles to include in your figuring:
-- Gas rates are surely going to go up
-- Resale value will be higher with a more efficient furnace (and it's more likely buyers will notice these things as gas rates go up)
-- An 80% furnace might require slightly less maintenance: there's no fan for the combustion air, there's no condensate coming back into the secondary heat exchanger. A good warranty should mitigate many of these concerns.
-- A 90%+ furnace is slightly safer. There's positive pressure driving the carbon monoxide out of your home, it is not dependent on an effective draft through a hood. With a non-high efficiency furnace, especially in a tight home, it is possible to cause a negative pressure situation that will have CO spilling inside (e.g. run the furnace while you are also running the stove hood and the clothes dryer).
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 09:31 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9 View Post
What do you think?
Not bad for the price. Couple of things. The air conditioner is going to be pretty loud compared to some of both Lennox and other company's higher end products. It looks like an R22 unit, which is the old style refrigerant thats being phased out in favor of R401. You might have some trouble getting R22 after about 8-10 years and if you can get it, it'll be very expensive.

What You Should Know about Refrigerants When Purchasing or Repairing a Residential A/C System or Heat Pump | Ozone Depletion - Regulatory Programs | U.S. EPA

You might want to upgrade to a quieter R401 unit that has a louvered cabinet to protect the cooling fins.

Nice furnace. No concerns there except for what Sam said...make sure they run a Manual J to size it properly or it may be under or overpowered. Both are bad. Putting in what you had before or a salesman who says "I know these homes/neighborhood/area and I know what'll work, dont you worry!" oughta make you worry a little. You can do your own manual J using software you can download for free (for a trial). But it'll take a few hours and you'll have to measure 1000 things.

That having been said, generically for your size home in a colder weather environment, 110k btu's is probably in the vicinity.

The HC10 is a good filter. The replacement cartridges may run you a few bucks but you'll only need to change them once or twice a year. You do have good access to the furnace to replace the filter, yes?

Is the warranty a manufacturers/factory warranty or is it through just this one business? While they sound pretty good, if you and they end up on the wrong side of things, it'd be nice to be able to take your warranty elsewhere.

Otherwise it looks like a pretty fair deal. Other than checking the size and reconsidering the air conditioner, that should provide a lot of comfort winter and summer. Furnace is a very quiet model. If you stick with that air conditioner, I hope its not near your bedrooms or living room.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2008, 09:37 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
I installed a Goodman furnace myself (93% eff) and have been very happy.
I considered doing that, but had two roadblocks. The first is that in CA you're required to do HVAC work with a permit and homeowners arent allowed to play with the gas lines unless they're licensed to do so. The second is that your insurance company may elect to not pay if you have a fire and its traced back to gas line work you did yourself.

Plus you're required to do duct sealing to <15% loss at the same time, and IIRC its actually some sort of minor crime to replace an HVAC system without doing the sealing. You can never sell a home around here with a new system and not producing the permit.

That having been said, I'm glad we did the duct work. I was getting a loss of about 400cfm@1600 going in before we did the work, and 161 after. I was pumping about a quarter of my conditioned air into the crawl and attic spaces and sucking some return air from those areas as well, without the benefit of any air filtration since that ingress was after the crappy 1" filters.

But dang, I wouldnt have minded doing it myself. Would have gone a lot more smoothly and I'd have done a better job. I'd have had to borrow some equipment to do the brazing and evacuation/vacuum work on the air conditioner, but I love learning new stuff
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 09:52 AM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
My furnace is close to dead. I got three quotes, and am pondering them:

1)Local shop: $5000 for a 93% efficient Carrier Infinity two-stage. Cost includes, removing old, cleaning AC coil, moving furnace two feet to the right to help future basement remodeling project, new PVC pipe to draw air from the outside, ductwork customizing the move, etc.

2)Two-man shop: My son's football and basketball coach runs a small HVAC shop. he gave me a quote of $3800 for the exact same work. He is a Bryant dealer, and told me that Carrier and Bryant are made by the same company (United technologies). Same warranties, features, etc, for $1200 less.

3)Trane folks: Wow, they hit me at $7400. Is Trane really that good? I;m not sure, but they sure are expensive.......

My house is about 2000 square foot, and a two story.
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:06 AM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
I think the carrier infinity/bryant evolution are better than the trane gear. Make sure you get the infinity control thermostat. It'll work with a plain two stage thermo, but you'll like the infinity stat. Should run you about $200.

I'd get the bryant. It is the same as the carrier. Just different name plates.

Get the variable speed blower fan. You'll save the cost in electricity and the comfort level is really nice.

I'd also seriously consider doing the a/c at the same time. They're already going to have to evacuate the old refrigerant and remove the coil. Basically all the remove/reconnect labor is going to happen, you just need to throw in the $ for the new compressor and coil.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:57 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
I can get furnace AND AC, with a 13 SERR unit, for $5960. And I get $350 back from energy credit rebates or whatever, so $5610 net. Not bad for furnace AND A/C.......
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:59 AM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 93
We got a Trane furnace and AC this spring for $4000. Best investment made. Got a 90% because even the salesman said the huge increase in price would take too long to recoup. We love the better blower and the more even heat. We have a two story home but in a townhouse size. 750 on the first and second floor and another 750 in the finished basement.

Salesman said there are special times during the year where they have specials to keep their people busy. End of winter is one of them. We checked around and it was a great deal at the time. They even included two seasonal tuneups for free to make sure all was working properly. So far great.
__________________
sweetana3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 12:41 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9 View Post
Furnace - Lennox G60V 110,000BTU 80%AFUE Variable speed fan Warranty is 20 year parts, 20 year labor, 25 year heat exchanger

A/C = Lennox 13 ACD42 42,000 BTUs 14 SEER warranty is 12/12/12 (last being compressor)

Install includes, System evac, new low voltage wire, new pad, new refridge lines, new 60amp disconnect box, half inch heavy duty whip, new evaporator coil, new flue pipe, plenum transition, digital programmable thermostat, removal of old equipment.

Also, in May they are giving a free Lennox HC10 air filtration system. I also like that this company has 200 techs and gives a 2 hour emergency call warranty 365 days a year. If they don't come within 2 hours you get $500.

What do you think?
I had the G60V and XC16 (3 ton) installed late last year. It has the HC16 filter and 20 years on the exchanger, 10 for the compressor, and 10/10 for parts and labor. I got everything else you wrote except for the disconnect box (which I don't have at all, as it's an older house).

The bid was $7050. After rebates and the non-credit card discount, it came to $5300. If you're paying $5600 for a much larger system (the furnace), it sounds like a good deal.
__________________
eridanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 03:45 PM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
Not bad for the price. Couple of things. The air conditioner is going to be pretty loud compared to some of both Lennox and other company's higher end products. It looks like an R22 unit, which is the old style refrigerant thats being phased out in favor of R401. You might have some trouble getting R22 after about 8-10 years and if you can get it, it'll be very expensive.
Well, the deal was signed today.

I decided that natural gas prices aren't headed anywhere but up. I had them bump it to the Lennox G61V 95% (90,000 btu) and they threw in the new pvc vent. They also bumped the warranty (factory) on the A/C to 15 year (including coolant) which is the expected life of the unit anyway.

Total cost installed will be $6365
__________________

__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SP500 Index fund tax efficiency prgsdw FIRE and Money 4 04-13-2008 08:46 PM
Reasonable Cost of a central air/furnace unit?? FinanceDude Other topics 30 03-07-2007 08:53 AM
The downside of efficiency in medical care samclem Health and Early Retirement 0 01-11-2007 07:39 PM
Digita; Thermostats for Furnace............. FinanceDude Other topics 17 01-05-2007 09:42 PM
Market Efficiency Q devo FIRE and Money 17 12-17-2006 12:51 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:36 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.