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Old 03-05-2008, 12:23 PM   #21
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No, that's Ms. Lewinsky...
See I set you up beautifully
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:26 PM   #22
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See I set you up beautifully
Check's in the mail...
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:28 PM   #23
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That, too. I've seen a fair number of "Republicans for Obama" largely for that reason. But what do they do in a Clinton/McCain matchup? They either hold their nose and vote for McCain, they vote third party, or they stay home. No way in h-e-double-hockey-sticks do they vote for Clinton.
Seems to me all of them are cut from the same cloth...
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Old 03-05-2008, 01:28 PM   #24
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Pretty long recent history of "little Washington experience" presidents ...

t.r.
True, but all of them as least were governors, right??
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:09 PM   #25
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No, but everyone knows what Clinton and McCain did do on Iraq.

Throw the bums out, let some new bums have a shot.
From what i can see, they did nothing but follow the will
of their constituency. Your post sort of implies otherwise
(apologies if i misread this)

in any case, perhaps that's what precisely
what makes them deserving of the "bum" moniker ...


is there a reason to believe why obama would
have done otherwise?
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:14 PM   #26
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Doesnt much matter. The two of them will be kicking each other in the shins for the next month or so, and then an acrimonious split party convention. In the meanwhile the repubs will be all lining up solidarity behind their candidate, mccain gets plenty of time to pick a complementary vice presidential candidate, and they'll have a lot more momentum going into the regular election.

Given that the polls have mccain pretty close with either of them NOW, I cant imagine it getting better for one of them after another month or two of squabbling.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:27 PM   #27
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We still don't know what happened in the Texas caucuses last night. By most accounts, there was pandemonium in many of them and the volunteers were overwhelmed.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:32 PM   #28
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We still don't know what happened in the Texas caucuses last night. By most accounts, there was pandemonium in many of them and the volunteers were overwhelmed.
I saw a report on the late news last night from a caucus in San Antonio. At the last caucus in that precinct, 16 people showed up. Last night there were over 300. The video of the meeting showed lots of disorganization, shouting, screaming and frustration.

Kinda reminded me of making sausage...
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:33 PM   #29
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Probably some kind of chigger attack..
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:38 PM   #30
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From what i can see, they did nothing but follow the will
of their constituency. Your post sort of implies otherwise
(apologies if i misread this)
That is not the point I was making, though I can see how my use of parallel sentence structure might result in that interpretation. They may well have been following the wills of their respective constituencies. However, they are now asking for my vote, and their actions do not (and did not) accord with my will.

Quote:
is there a reason to believe why obama would
have done otherwise?
Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In |

His speech pretty much lays out what I felt at the time, and no new information has since come to light (such as might have been known only to members of Congress at that time) to justify the invasion in my mind.
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:04 PM   #31
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I saw a report on the late news last night from a caucus in San Antonio. At the last caucus in that precinct, 16 people showed up. Last night there were over 300. The video of the meeting showed lots of disorganization, shouting, screaming and frustration.

Kinda reminded me of making sausage...
I went to the sausage making.... not organized at all...

And they had 7 precincts voting at the same school with only 10 voting machines.... there was a 45 minute line to wait in to SIGN in to vote and then a second one just as long to vote... and THEN we could caucus... and then they did not have enough paper that you were supposed to 'cast' your second vote...

I heard where one precinct did not start until about 12 midnight to 1 AM...

BUT, since most of the time nothing is even close in Texas, this is a 'one' time thing....

While waiting, I talked to this guy who said the first time he voted in Texas back in the 80s, he went in and there were only 3 people... so he called his wife, his BIL, sister, two sons... and someone else.... so his family was 7 of the 13 delegates from that precinct....



WOW>>>>> the news just came on and they said that there were a bunch of repub crossovers were voting for Clinton since Rush said to do it since SHE would be easier to beat... estimated to be about 100,000 voters if I heard correctly... now, how stupid is that!!!

(sorry to all the Clinton folks....)
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:48 AM   #32
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WOW>>>>> the news just came on and they said that there were a bunch of repub crossovers were voting for Clinton since Rush said to do it since SHE would be easier to beat... estimated to be about 100,000 voters if I heard correctly... now, how stupid is that!!!

(sorry to all the Clinton folks....)

The only reason McCain has a small chance of winning is because he is not a traditional republican.

The recession (or near miss) and the securities markets combined with Iraq are going to be some major hurdles for McCain to overcome.

McCain's message about the surge worked... falls on deaf ears to everyone who believes that we were deceived by GWB and his over zealous crew.

I would say it is the other way around. Obama or Hillary have to lose the election.

The populace is extremely angry about the state of things (the republican party and platform).

The fact is that most conservatives do not like McCain so it is likely there will be a thin conservative turnout come election day.

McCain is not running against Obama or Hillary. He is running against the cumulative problems that accrued over the last 8 years. Historically the incumbent party does not win when the economy is in bad shape.

Say hello to your new president... Obama or Clinton, your commander in chief. Or perhaps P/VP combo.
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:00 AM   #33
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I think you're right - unless the economy makes a dramatic recovery, Hillary or Obama will be our next president. Voters will seize the opportunity to accomplish three things with their Clinton or Obama vote:

1. Get back at Bush for the last 8 years
2. Get out of Iraq
3. Punish (tax) the rich and bring back the middle class (and economy) by giving them money / benefits.

McCain better get prepared, because its going to be very difficult for him to convince the average American that he is the best choice.
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:23 AM   #34
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The only reason McCain has a small chance of winning is because he is not a traditional republican.
...
The populace is extremely angry about the state of things (the republican party and platform).

...

McCain is not running against Obama or Hillary. He is running against the cumulative problems that accrued over the last 8 years. Historically the incumbent party does not win when the economy is in bad shape.

Say hello to your new president... Obama or Clinton, your commander in chief. Or perhaps P/VP combo.
Sadly I agree. Progress in Iraq will help swing the relatively small number of people, who are more interested in solving problems than assigning blame.

The economy is likely to be the issue. HillBama will shameless promise all types of government programs which can't possibly be done quickly enough to make any type of difference, before the recession ends..

McCain is too honest to pander, but his advisor won't let him tell the truth.

"My friends time for some straight talk. The President of the United State is a powerful office, but there isn't a hell of a lot I can do fix the economy.

If you want to know who can get the economy back in shape look in mirror, or at your boss or the small business owner down the street. You are the economic change you've been waiting for. Work harder, smarter, if you have an idea for business go for it, don't stop buying stuff you need, but don't go crazy and max out the credit cards and home equity loans.

Ben Bernake and his fellow bankers at the Fed are smart guys they'll do what the can to help the financial system...

Congress has a modest role also. They should do blah, blah, but don't except a lot of help from your Federal Govt. It's not really our job to fix the economy, and trust me that is a really good thing.

I'll do what I can to keep Congress from doing anything stupid like raising taxes or trade tarrifs, but it is up to you." Every economic downturn has always been followed by better times, and probably right around the time the new President is sworn. If this happens I promise I'll give my fellow countrymen all the credit. "

Of course this speech will never happen so it is probably the Democrats turn again.
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:04 AM   #35
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As a Canadian i'm wondering what Obama has ever done to merit such a huge following?.He seems to go on and on about change and for now its just rhetoric but change is a double edged sword and doesnt always turn out to be for the better
Any Obama supporters want to fill me in on why the hype.
He gave a real good speech last time at the Convention in 2004. Thats IT! It really is amaaaazing that americans are so nuts.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:19 AM   #36
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If allowed, Florida, Michigan could tip nomination - CNN.com

Basically, there's a push to allow Florida and Michigan delegates in, which could be interesting.

Neither candidate campaigned in those states. The stories talk about voter turnout being low because they knew their votes wouldn't count. They could have another primary but that'd be expensive.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the party. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to end up feeling abandoned either way.
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:24 PM   #37
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That is not the point I was making, though I can see how my use of parallel sentence structure might result in that interpretation. They may well have been following the wills of their respective constituencies. However, they are now asking for my vote, and their actions do not (and did not) accord with my will.

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In |

His speech pretty much lays out what I felt at the time, and no new information has since come to light (such as might have been known only to members of Congress at that time) to justify the invasion in my mind.
on this issue, you and i are in agreement. thanks for the clarification.
and the link.
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:08 PM   #38
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Nice to see Clinton and Obama blowing a few million a month to defeat each other ... heard McCain only has 25 million in his cougher. Hardly enough to run for president.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:08 AM   #39
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I went to the sausage making.... not organized at all...

And they had 7 precincts voting at the same school with only 10 voting machines.... there was a 45 minute line to wait in to SIGN in to vote and then a second one just as long to vote... and THEN we could caucus... and then they did not have enough paper that you were supposed to 'cast' your second vote...

I heard where one precinct did not start until about 12 midnight to 1 AM...
This is probably hat a Hillary or Obama administration will look like (& our future health care system)
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Old 03-09-2008, 06:45 AM   #40
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This is probably hat a Hillary or Obama administration will look like (& our future health care system)
Then get ready for the sausage grinder.

If McCain does not address
  • Economy
  • Health Care
  • SS
  • Energy
Pretty much in that order... he is done before he starts.

The War in Iraq... all anyone wants to hear is that we will leave at as soon as feasible. If his message on Iraq is off... It will go against him. Nobody except for a few fools wants to be in Iraq. But most understand we need to exit in a reasonable way.

I do not dislike McCain... in fact I like some of his positions. But much of his message is off. The vast majority of people have other concerns.
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