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Hiring Illegals & our Government - Get this..
Old 06-06-2007, 12:33 PM   #1
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Hiring Illegals & our Government - Get this..

I have a hair salon in an area that has turned 99% Mexican. In fact probably 65% or more of our customers do not speak English, and at least 95% of my customers are Mexican as few non-mexican's would live in this area now or go to this shopping mall.

There is also a severe shortage of hair stylists, cause so few are going into profession today cause of high cost of school and not so great wages afterwards. So I am always desperate for hair stylists.

In the last year or so I have received notices from the IRS about the social security numbers that we have reported for a couple of the stylists. Come to find out the social security card they have was fake. To make a long story short, I call them (Social Security) up and I am told that I AM RESPONSIBLE PRIOR TO HIRING to call them (Social Secuity) and check with them to make sure that the social security number they gave me is a real SS.. At the same breath, they warn me about firing these employees stating that if I do, it would be considered discrimination and bares a fine of $250,000 and possible jail time. LOVELY

SO. I of course I immediately instruct my manager that before hiring any future employees, she is to call and verify their social security. Well, I just lost four stylists at once, and when we called to verify a social security number of an applicant, we were told this. WE CAN'T VERIFY THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY HIRE THEM !!! When my manager proceeded to argue with them, saying of course- How are we supposed to obey the law and not hire illegals when you won't tell us if they are illegal, and then turn around and hold us responsible if we do hire them.

We called back three times and once asked for a supervisor because I had to be sure we didn't just get some dim wit who didn't know what they were talking about, and got the same responce from everyone.

The Cosmetology and Barber School don't seem to care and took their money and they graduated from school.

It is so insane, it defy's explination. This is a very complex problem as there are large cities that are now almost 100% Spanish, and all the business in these cities have only the Spanish population to draw from for both their hired help and customer base. What will become of all the businesses? Should they all be shut down?

I opened my store over 25 years ago, and it was at that time 98% White population, but over time gradually changed. I guess the point is - I think it is the government's fault for letting the situation get to where it is today, and as usual, they don't want to be held accountable for anything.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:36 PM   #2
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We are from the government and we are here to help you !
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:46 PM   #3
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You can extend an offer contingent on the verification of the social security number. Have them fill out an I-9 (I assume they are employees) and go through that process. Verify the SSN of all new hires. You are not discriminating on the basis of national origin. All employees, without regard to status are obligated to provide a good social security number.

The quirky thing about this is that IRS provides SSNs to undocumented workers for tax collection purposes. Beats me what you do if an employee provides evidently good info to complete an I-9 but when you verify SSN you are told that it is one of those IRS SSNs.

In practical terms applicants who are not legal residents will seek employment elsewhere in the underground economy.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:48 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by modhatter View Post
At the same breath, they warn me about firing these employees stating that if I do, it would be considered discrimination and bares a fine of $250,000 and possible jail time. LOVELY

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I would check on this one, if someone applies to a company and produces false information, like having a dregree they do not have, they can be fired, even if this is discovered many years later. I would assume this is also true of identification information like SS. Obviously you would want to check with a lawyer but I suspect if you want to fire them you could do so. And if they are illegals it would be difficult for them to bring a lawsuit about discrimination since they have provided false information.

Now if you do not want to fire them then you are in the position of a lot of small businesses, you have to figure out that one.
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:06 PM   #5
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Actually the notice I got from the Social Security Admin. that initially inquired about the social security numbers that I was using - had on the bottom of the form letter in VERY LARGE BOLD LETTERS that I was NOT to fire them, or else face substancial fines and or imprisonment.

And it was again reiterated by an individual I spoke with on the phone from the SS office. What I was told back then was to have them go to a social security office with certain ID, file a tax return and have them get a ITEN #, and use that to report their wages under.

So, it seems to me that the IRS wants to tax them, they don't want you to fire them, they will hold you responsible if you hire them and they are not legal, but won't verify if they are legal..
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:07 PM   #6
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I was just involved as a reference for a similar contingency. The company went through their hiring process and decided they wanted to hire the person that I used to employ. So they made an offer contingent on the supplied references checking out. The offer was accepted. Only then were the references checked. Had the references not been positive, the offer would have been rescinded.

The bigger problem you will have is when none of the Spanish-speaking applicants check out legal, the typical situation. An acquaintence had the same problem in his chain of dry cleaning shops, and I understand that manicurists/pedicurists are in the same boat.
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:20 PM   #7
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In Arizona, the Legislature is kicking around ideas to penalize businesses even more if they are caught hiring illegal aliens (since, after all, they come here for the jobs, not the pleasant climate.)

The businesses have gotten around some of the rules by making everyone subcontractors with their own business, maybe that would work for you, that you could just rent them space.
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:31 PM   #8
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One of the funnier exchanges related to me by a HR Manager who spotted a false document:

Applicant, "But I paid a lot of money for it!!"

HR, "You didn't get your money's worth. Sorry."
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