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Old 01-31-2016, 02:32 PM   #41
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Link did not work for me...
FWIW, it worked fine for me (Windows 7, Firefox). The URL is:
https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/ou...ter-ef3000iseb

That's a nice item. MSRP of $2500 for a generator that can surge to 3500W briefly, then put out up to 2800 watts for an extended period. That would be pretty handy.
...................................Start.......... ....................Run
Fridge.......................1200W................ ..........200W
10K window AC........2200W.........................1500W
1/3 HP furnace fan...1400W..........................700W

Approx run and starting wattages for various items: Honda Generators - Wattage estimation guide

It would be nice if they made a cheaper, smaller unit that had a pull-start and hooked up to a vehicle battery for the surge capability. Lots of small trailers/truck campers could use something like that.
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:56 PM   #42
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How about an arrangement like this?

Use a beefy inverter that runs off a couple of batteries, then use a smaller generator to charge the batteries.

The problem is of course that big inverters are expensive if you want the pure sine wave type. Also, you would need a good smart, efficient, and powerful charger the type they use in newer RVs, not the chintzy chargers you get at Walmart or auto stores. I would also go with a 24V inverter instead of the common 12V type, to lower the current drawn, permitting smaller gauge cables.

An advantage of this is that you have continuous power for lighting and the fridge if you want to shut down the generator for the night, or for maintenance. Drawbacks include costs, and also higher maintenance due to the batteries.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:19 PM   #43
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It is common knowledge that you can parallel two inverter generators and they will synchronize. I saw a YouTube video (which can't find now) where a guy paralleled his Honda generator with a 12 volt sine wave inverter. It seems that the Honda generators have the ability to do their own phase synchronization.

I know you are shaking your head - I'll keep looking for it.

EDIT: OK, here it is:

This is the inverter: http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWat...prowatt+sw2000
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:35 PM   #44
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Lemme help you out here.

You sent the link to me a while back, and I had not known that it was possible. However, the inverter this guy used was a pure sine wave, not a modified sine wave type.

Note carefully that the powering up sequence is important. You start up the battery-fed inverter, plug in the Honda 2000i generator, then pull-start the generator.

I don't know what prompted this guy to do this experiment to see if it would work. I would be extremely wary of ruining either the generator or the inverter.

By the way, my pure sine-wave inverter was blown up due to a failure in my homebrew transfer switch in the RV, which shorted the inverter against shore power. It took me quite a bit of work to buy replacement transistors from Digikey to repair the inverter. The story of how my transfer switch failed and the hassle of repairing the inverter must be saved for another time.

PS. OK, I now see that you also found it.

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Old 01-31-2016, 03:51 PM   #45
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Lemme help you out here.

You sent the link to me a while back, and I had not known that it was possible. However, the inverter this guy used was a pure sine wave, not a modified sine wave type.
Yea sorry, I forgot that we had discussed this before and I was mistaken about the pure vs modified sine inverter. Getting old...

I think the salient point is that it is possible to couple an inverter generator with a battery operated inverter which would allow one to use a lot smaller generator, having the surge covered by the battery. A clever guy could design an interface box so the generator would not connect unless the inverter was energized.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:58 PM   #46
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I have to watch the video again to see if he plugged in the generator as it was running. I thought he plugged it in cold, then pull-started it.

There was a fancy inverter/charger for RVs that automatically draws from the battery to supplement the external power when the latter is "weak", then reverses the flow to recharge the battery when the load is reduced. It's expensive however, with the cost in the few $K.
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:10 PM   #47
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I have to watch the video again to see if he plugged in the generator as it was running. I thought he plugged it in cold, then pull-started it.

There was a fancy inverter/charger for RVs that automatically draws from the battery to supplement the external power when the latter is "weak", then reverses the flow to recharge the battery when the load is reduced. It's expensive however, with the cost in the few $K.
Right - Victron and Xantrax both make inverters that automatically synchronize to a generator or even shore power, but they are about $4K-ish. Like any engineer, I like to see a low cost, efficient solution. And no, I wouldn't plug my $1200 Honda generator into an inverter to see what happens.
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:21 PM   #48
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Often, my low-cost solution turns out to be a kludge that costs me much time, if not money. But then, how else does a guy have fun?

But I also draw a stop at plugging things in randomly to see what happens. Did a bit of that when I was in my early teens, but not since.
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:43 PM   #49
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..........
But I also draw a stop at plugging things in randomly to see what happens. Did a bit of that when I was in my early teens, but not since.
I started as a toddler with a hairpin and an outlet.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:59 PM   #50
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Thanks for all the comments! I think I made a good choice, it is always nice to get the comments and owner tips of our knowledgeable folks here.

I have only one unit, so just thinking here -- I'm a bit mystified how they circuit-wise synch two inverters together. This is a floating-output generator, so even though the user outlet connections are Neutral and Hot, there is no which-is-which in reality, unless you ground the "Neutral" yourself (Neutral Bonding). So the generator's inverter output acts like a floating secondary of a transformer. In the owners manual, there is a schematic, and it shows the connection points for the two paralleling cables as being one side of the output for one cable, and the other paralleling cable connects to the other side output, but upstream from the internal circuit breaker. And the parallel kit cables conduct user power, too.

So... the output of one inverter is connected in parallel with the second inverter. And there is no assigned Master or Slave. Each must be looking at it's own output (which is paralleled with the other unit), and somehow adjusting its phase (and frequency to be spot-on). It seems like a chicken-or-egg scenario. And it has to keep working as one gen is turned off or runs out of gas, is refueled, and restarted. Did not see anything about special precautions when shutting off/restarting one of the paralleled units.

Oil Filler -- the oil filler cap is recessed, and down low. You fill till it just about overflows. I'll need to get a thin-tube funnel to make an easier job of it, one with a curve in the tube. I've seen after-market oil fill extenders, that screw in onto the threads where the filler cap goes, and raise it up and out. Then just a regular funnel could be used. But it would seem that may still have a problem, as I don't think one could accurately judge the oil level trying to look down a tubular extender. Or maybe it's easier than I imagine. The extenders are not cheap!
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Old 02-02-2016, 07:40 AM   #51
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If you want a system with a battery and inverter then consider a DC generator. There are plans to build one using a lawn mower motor and an alternator.

Quote: "I think the salient point is that it is possible to couple an inverter generator with a battery operated inverter which would allow one to use a lot smaller generator, having the surge covered by the battery. A clever guy could design an interface box so the generator would not connect unless the inverter was energized."
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:39 AM   #52
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Now where were we.....

While I agree with NW that one doesn't want to kluge something together, A cool commercially produced extension of the Yamaha generator that uses its own battery for a boost, would be to extend the concept so you could park the generator next to your car and use a high current quick connect (like an Anderson connector) to hook to the car battery. Now instead of a 500 watt surge boost, you could have a 2000 watt boost. A tiny fuel efficient generator could run an RV AC unit. There seems to be a lot of new entries into the inverter generator market lately - maybe one of them could use this for a competitive advantage.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:20 AM   #53
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There is a site on yahoo groups under the name Honda eu2000 that has a wealth of information on these little jewels. I have heard allot of good things on the comparable yamahas also.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:33 AM   #54
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A cool commercially produced extension of the Yamaha generator that uses its own battery for a boost, would be to extend the concept so you could park the generator next to your car and use a high current quick connect (like an Anderson connector) to hook to the car battery. Now instead of a 500 watt surge boost, you could have a 2000 watt boost. A tiny fuel efficient generator could run an RV AC unit. There seems to be a lot of new entries into the inverter generator market lately - maybe one of them could use this for a competitive advantage.
+1. And a 13.5VDC connection from the genset to the vehicle battery that keeps it topped up between boosts. In addition to RVers, this would be a natural for home emergency backup power, just put the generator out by the car and run a cord inside. Both homes and RVs have several sources of high, short startup loads (well pumps, sump pumps, furnace fans, fridge, AC units, etc).
A setup like this could easily eliminate the need for a second linked generator ($$), and allow use of a smaller generator just to handle the long-term loads (less $$, less weight/trouble moving it, better fuel efficiency).
There's no reason it couldn't be marketed as an add-on box for existing generators, but it would probably be less expensive to integrate everything in the base unit.
Kickstarter project!
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:42 AM   #55
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+1. And a 13.5VDC connection from the genset to the vehicle battery that keeps it topped up between boosts........
I think the Honda 1000 actually has 12 volt charging cable - should be easy to incorporate a charging circuit.
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