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Old 12-09-2018, 06:37 AM   #121
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Hoping the new RAV4 is an improvement over the last one. The current engine is a dog and gets horrible gas mileage. Drove one a couple of years ago and hated it. The 2010 Highlander I had was a POS. There were so many things wrong with it that I vowed never again to buy anything made in that factory.

Even with the 2.4L engine in the new CRV LX, I did not like the car. Who combines the speedometer with the tachometer? And instead of a flat rear area, there is a flimsy piece of carpeted something that lifts out. Difficult to load anything heavy back there. My 2002 had some height in the rear and a picnic table. I would buy another one of those in a heartbeat.
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:44 AM   #122
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By the way, Honda engines have never been ones to rebuild. The good news is that they have always had a long life span if properly maintained, especially those years where they had timing belts that required changing instead of timing chains. The potential problemss being discussed here are a completely new generation of engines.

Honda engines have always been thowaways. You'd either pay out the nose for a new engine or go to the junk yard and do a swap out.

(My family owned a couple of big city Honda dealerships at one time.)
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:33 AM   #123
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I sold my 2008 Honda Accord LX (138K miles on it) this past May for $6,400.

The reason for my frustration with Honda is that 2 1/2 years earlier, the Accord had 97,000 miles on it and the engine stopped - on Christmas Eve. The car was towed to the local dealer and Honda claimed that the vehicle did not have any oil in the vehicle. Anyway, I provided receipts that I had changed the oil each 3K - 5K miles over the life of the vehicle and that the last oil change had taken place at the 95,200 mile mark. There are numerous articles of problems with the 2008 Accord Engine losing oil - and Honda refused to fix.


Since the vehicle was no longer under warranty, Honda generously offered to replace the engine for $3,500. Since the car was not running, it was my best option at the time - as opposed to putting in a rebuilt engine that may or may not work.

Over the last 5 years = when the car was cold, the vehicle made a harsh sound during starting which Honda claimed they were aware of - but no fix offered.

Anyway, I just didn't like doing business with Honda after the aforementioned experiences and took my business to a closer dealer and brand - which was Toyota. So far, after 7 months - the Rav 4 runs like a charm.


I
The 2008 Accords with the 4 cylinder engine had problems with burning oil. If you brought it to the dealer before running it out of oil and locking up the engine, the dealer would check the oil consumption over several months. If yours showed what they deemed excessive oil consumption (1 qt/600 miles), they would tear down the engine and replace the pistons and rings at a cost of about $1000, provided the car had under 100,000 miles.

The dealer told my brother in law, Honda was trying out some new low tension piston rings with a new piston design that year (in an effort for increased fuel mileage) that led to increased oil consumption later in life. This was due to the rings coking up with deposits and seizing to the piston. The fix was kind of a secret recall, one that you didn't get if you didn't ask. My brother in law had this done to his, and the car runs like new with no oil consumption between changes after the fix. And the engine is much quieter now.

Frequent oil level checks are always a good idea, no matter how new the car is. That is, unless you buy a newer BMW, since they eliminated the dip stick on those. Now on those you rely on an oil level sensor and a message that comes up on the dash if you are low on oil. May be a result of fewer people popping the hood and checking oil level the old fashioned way.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:05 AM   #124
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Boss had a 1990 Accord that ran for over 650,000 miles not engine issues. Everything gave out except the engine. Finally donated it. I have had 8 different Honda’s with never a problem. Bought my daughter a 2013 Civic for first car. No issues.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:11 AM   #125
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Wow. Is there a website "somewhere" that lists all these makes, models and years that were such lemons - or had such prominent flaws - that one can review in order to "steer clear" of them in the future when buying used cars?
I don’t know of any single place other than something like Consumer Reports and their long term reliability tables. However, practically all cars have a forum similar to this (ER Forum). When you are shopping, get your list down to a couple models and start googling for forums. Early problems will show up but you have to do a bit of work finding them.

Another thing is not to be an early adopter. For example, I just bought a truck. It is the last year of that generation. That means there has been 5 years for problems to come to light on any design flaws and hopefully even fixed by the manufacturer. I wouldn’t by the first year of a significant model change if I could help it.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:16 AM   #126
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Wow. Is there a website "somewhere" that lists all these makes, models and years that were such lemons - or had such prominent flaws - that one can review in order to "steer clear" of them in the future when buying used cars?
This might be of interest: https://www.carcomplaints.com/

The site indicates the 2017/18 Honda CR-V "fuel in oil" problem is a trending defect.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:13 AM   #127
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My son has a 2018 CRV and its a nice vehicle, but we were dismayed after reading about this issue on the CRVowners forum where the problem has been reported for quite some period of time. What I find infuriating is Honda taking a regional approach given the supposed fix is only a software flash. I think there needs to be a class action lawsuit or more owners invoking their states lemon law clauses.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:20 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by spncity View Post
Wow. Is there a website "somewhere" that lists all these makes, models and years that were such lemons - or had such prominent flaws - that one can review in order to "steer clear" of them in the future when buying used cars?
Check the annual April automobile issue of Consumer Reports. They have easy to read tables showing the reliability of automobile systems for various cars. And often a list of 'Cars to Avoid' is included. And a list of older cars that make good used car purchases.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:33 AM   #129
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This might be of interest: https://www.carcomplaints.com/

The site indicates the 2017/18 Honda CR-V "fuel in oil" problem is a trending defect.
Gee, thanks ReWahoo! You just gave me something else to worry about. I looked up my 2012 Toyota Tundra truck on carcomplaints.com just now, and found out that there have been a fair number of complaints on Tundras made from 2007-2012 regarding failure of the air induction pump. Apparently it is part of the emissions system (sends warm air to the catalytic converter when the car is started), and costs around $3000 to repair. After numerous complaints, Toyota decided to extend the warranty on fixing this part for 6 yrs/60,000 miles........and I now have about 68,000 miles on mine. No issues with it so far, but apparently it is a bigger problem in cold climates, and I live in Michigan.

Hmmmmm. Any other Tundra owners on the forum, and if so, have any of you had this problem? I was planning to keep my truck for several more years yet (it has been a good truck, no serious issues), but this problem has now got me wondering whether I should trade it in sooner. Apparently the issue (if it is going to occur) occurs most commonly around 60,000 - 100,000 miles.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:49 AM   #130
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So the official Honda 'fix' is really to get the engine to warm up faster and burn the fuel in the cylinders rather than getting washed down past the piston rings?

I think there are two things contributing to this issue, one GDI which can be upwards of 2000PSI of fuel pressure being injected directly into the cylinders and two the fact that this is a forced induction motor (turbo) and high compression too. The piston rings just can't practically create a strong enough seal. This is why back in the day turbo engines were lower compression and even then the oil would get diluted requiring more frequent oil changes.

I guess I'm questioning whether the warm up cycle alone will fix the issue completely, actually it won't because in that service bulletin it says even after this repair some oil dilution is 'normal' - but it will certainly help by burning the fuel more completely.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:15 AM   #131
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I had a 2010 Honda CRV . The air conditioning system went at 34,000 miles . It was a design flaw that Honda knew about but decided to ignore .
Not just Honda.
"Our 04 Sienna has 120K miles and until this, not one unscheduled service. If this happens, be aware that this is a common problem with the Denso compressor sourced by Toyota for the current Sienna and Honda for the latest Odyssey." - https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...essor-blows-up

For us, personally it was our 2007 Audi A3.
When the AC failed, our mechanic said: "You got a lot more years out of it than most people. That will be $1300 to fix."
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:01 PM   #132
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At this point I don't think you have many options. I'd imagine you would not do well if you sold. Take Honda up on the software update when it becomes available. Change the oil as frequently as common sense allows. Good luck with this!
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:18 PM   #133
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Not just Honda.
"Our 04 Sienna has 120K miles and until this, not one unscheduled service. If this happens, be aware that this is a common problem with the Denso compressor sourced by Toyota for the current Sienna and Honda for the latest Odyssey." - https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...essor-blows-up

For us, personally it was our 2007 Audi A3.
When the AC failed, our mechanic said: "You got a lot more years out of it than most people. That will be $1300 to fix
."
I get so tired of reading about auto repair shops taking customers for fools. You can get a compressor, accumulator and rest of the parts to renew the A3 A/C unit for $300-350 at Rock Auto. When completely replacing the parts, it's not a $1000 labor repair.

A new compressor and parts kit for the above 04 Toyota Siena only runs $200-250 at Rock Auto.

Give me a break.
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:13 PM   #134
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I get so tired of reading about auto repair shops... not a $1000 labor repair.
I am done working on cars.
I did it starting in 1960 assisting my father and then on my own starting in 1967. Hell, I had 1968 MGB and a 1975 Fiat so you know much repair time I put in. I also rebuilt the engine and transmission of my 63 Rambler.
I quit in the late 80s when it got very complicated and cramped under the hood.
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Old 12-09-2018, 02:01 PM   #135
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So the official Honda 'fix' is really to get the engine to warm up faster and burn the fuel in the cylinders rather than getting washed down past the piston rings?

I think there are two things contributing to this issue, one GDI which can be upwards of 2000PSI of fuel pressure being injected directly into the cylinders and two the fact that this is a forced induction motor (turbo) and high compression too. The piston rings just can't practically create a strong enough seal. This is why back in the day turbo engines were lower compression and even then the oil would get diluted requiring more frequent oil changes.

I guess I'm questioning whether the warm up cycle alone will fix the issue completely, actually it won't because in that service bulletin it says even after this repair some oil dilution is 'normal' - but it will certainly help by burning the fuel more completely.
The fix should be controlling the air/fuel mixture so excessive raw gas isn't dumped into the cylinders in the first place, not raising engine temperatures to evaporate it out. This has to be causing excessive wear on the piston rings and cylinder walls.
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Old 12-09-2018, 03:48 PM   #136
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The 2008 Accords with the 4 cylinder engine had problems with burning oil. If you brought it to the dealer before running it out of oil and locking up the engine, the dealer would check the oil consumption over several months. If yours showed what they deemed excessive oil consumption (1 qt/600 miles), they would tear down the engine and replace the pistons and rings at a cost of about $1000, provided the car had under 100,000 miles.

The dealer told my brother in law, Honda was trying out some new low tension piston rings with a new piston design that year (in an effort for increased fuel mileage) that led to increased oil consumption later in life. This was due to the rings coking up with deposits and seizing to the piston. The fix was kind of a secret recall, one that you didn't get if you didn't ask. My brother in law had this done to his, and the car runs like new with no oil consumption between changes after the fix. And the engine is much quieter now.

Frequent oil level checks are always a good idea, no matter how new the car is. That is, unless you buy a newer BMW, since they eliminated the dip stick on those. Now on those you rely on an oil level sensor and a message that comes up on the dash if you are low on oil. May be a result of fewer people popping the hood and checking oil level the old fashioned way.
In the 8 years that I had the Honda prior to the "loss of oil" incident. I had faithfully changed my oil each and every 5000 miles. My vehicle never burned excessive oil until the engine shut down. In fact, the check engine light never came on either. I saw the "silent recall" on the websites and wished that Honda would have given me a little more goodwill.

Anyway, 3 years later, I ended up getting a fair price on a private sale as opposed to going to a dealer in order to sell the Honda.

Regarding the RAV 4 Hybrid - I looked at the Honda CRV, the Subaru Crosstrek, and the RAV 4. Wifey liked the RAV 4 the best. The Honda CRV was too big and wifey thought the Crosstrek was a cheaper build.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:35 PM   #137
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This might be of interest: https://www.carcomplaints.com/

The site indicates the 2017/18 Honda CR-V "fuel in oil" problem is a trending defect.

According to this site Honda CRV has had a lot of problems but consumer reports still thinks it is great . I have lost all faith in consumer reports .
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:39 PM   #138
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Note the reliability data reported by Consumer Reports comes from surveying readers about their experiences with the cars they own. Careful we don't shoot the messenger.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:54 PM   #139
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My vehicle never burned excessive oil until the engine shut down. In fact, the check engine light never came on either.
The 2008 Accords don't have oil level sensors and the check engine light won't come on to indicate a low oil level, so that makes sense. The check engine light primarily indicates engine issues that affect emission levels such as lean or rich air/fuel ratios, misfires and various sensor or wiring problems.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:26 PM   #140
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Note the reliability data reported by Consumer Reports comes from surveying readers about their experiences with the cars they own. Careful we don't shoot the messenger.
Yes, it is the old statistics vs anecdotes thing again. People that have expensive issues tend to have loud anecdotes - not that I blame them.
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