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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 07:14 PM   #121
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Re: Horrifying

Some good news. My brother's daughter has been found!! Alll family members accounted for. Now, all we have to do is recover their lifestyles. Some are talking about returning to New Orleans. That might happen, but not any time soon.

Anyway, My mom and all family members, on DW's side too, have been found and are sorting things out.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 07:19 PM   #122
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Re: Horrifying

Thats great! Know you must be tremendously relieved.

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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 07:23 PM   #123
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43
Some good news.* My brother's daughter has been found!! Alll family members accounted for.* Now, all we have to do is recover their lifestyles.* Some are talking about returning to New Orleans.* That might happen, but not any time soon.

Anyway, My mom and all family members, on DW's side too, have been found and are sorting things out.
Great news! *Getting that lifestyle back won't be easy, but having the life is really what it's about. *Hope that things all come together for them in time.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 07:25 PM   #124
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43
Some good news.* My brother's daughter has been found!! Alll family members accounted for.* Now, all we have to do is recover their lifestyles.* Some are talking about returning to New Orleans.* That might happen, but not any time soon.

Anyway, My mom and all family members, on DW's side too, have been found and are sorting things out.






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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 07:59 PM   #125
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Re: Horrifying

All right! Great news, Eagle.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 08:18 PM   #126
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Re: Horrifying

Eagle,

That's wonderful news. The rebuilding will be slow but at least they are alive and safe.

LL
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 08:19 PM   #127
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Re: Horrifying

Great news, Eagle! *Congratulations.


Regarding W, OK ... it's all his fault. *But, just curious ... the Democrats held the White House for 8 years ... why didn't they raise the levees, and solve a problem that has been noted for what ... decades? *Study the issue, and it's obvious there are lots of government fools to blame, as well as private citizens.


This management disaster started at the local, parish and state level, and the fed's didn't help much. *Disgusting. *Looking forward to the investigation ... should be another political football ...
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 08:43 PM   #128
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43
Some good news.* My brother's daughter has been found!! Alll family members accounted for.* Now, all we have to do is recover their lifestyles.* Some are talking about returning to New Orleans.* That might happen, but not any time soon.

Anyway, My mom and all family members, on DW's side too, have been found and are sorting things out.
Excellent news! If there is anything we can do to help, just say so. One of the most frustrating things is to watch the tragedy going on and not be able to do anything.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 08:44 PM   #129
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Re: Horrifying

I am more than a little disturbed by the "let them eat cake" attitude the administration seems to have displayed. We even seem to have our own, modern-day Marie Antoinette:

"Did New Yorkers chase Condoleezza Rice back to Washington yesterday?

Like President Bush, the Secretary of State has been on vacation during the Hurricane Katrina crisis, with Rice enjoying her downtime in New York Wednesday and yesterday. The cabinet member's responsibilities are usually international, but her timing contributed to the "fiddling while Rome burns" impression given by her boss during the disaster, which may have claimed thousands of lives.


On Wednesday night, Secretary Rice was booed by some audience members at "Spamalot!," the Monty Python musical at the Shubert, when the lights went up after the performance.


Yesterday, Rice went shopping at Ferragamo on Fifth Ave. According to the Web site www.Gawker.com, the 50-year-old bought "several thousand dollars' worth of shoes" at the pricey leather-goods boutique.


A fellow shopper shouted, "How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!" - presumably referring to Louisiana and Mississippi."

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-292600c.html
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 08:56 PM   #130
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Re: Horrifying

Eagle - I'm happy that you and yours are well.
Warm regards
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 09:14 PM   #131
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
. . .Regarding W, OK ... it's all his fault. *But, just curious ... the Democrats held the White House for 8 years ... why didn't they raise the levees, and solve a problem that has been noted for what ... decades? * ...
According to a discussion I heard on the radio this morning, Clinton found FEMA in a mess when he took office. Both Republicans and Democrats on the show's panel gave him a great deal of credit for fixing the organization, getting long term plans in place, and starting to take some action. Apparently, the New Orleans levees were one of the long term plans scheduled to have started last year (I believe?).

But Clinton's big failure is missing the opportunity to direct more of the surplus the country produced during his terms into projects like this one. Instead, he left a big pile of cash for Bush to give away to his rich friends.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 09:49 PM   #132
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Re: Horrifying

Surprise. Local governments and prior federal administrations have no blame ... :
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 09:59 PM   #133
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Re: Horrifying

Here's an interesting bit from a guy by the name of John Thacker:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/09...-politics.html

So, several articles (especially in the New York Times and Chicago Tribune) make it clear that the levees were not engineered to withstand a storm of this size. Indeed, additional money would have made no difference, since it was a recently repaired and reinforced (up to the level that they were planning) levee which broke.

Given that, the city should have been evacuated earlier. (Obvious in hindsight now-- how much did previous near-misses and predictions that didn't come true at the last minute like Ivan affect things?) At least on Saturday, when the President pre-declared it a disaster area, there should have been an evacuation order. Why did the mayor wait until late Sunday? According to the LA Times, Greyhound already stopped running Saturday night, to protect their employees. The trains couldn't run, as the tracks go by and on the levees. The flights were canceled. There was no way that all the tourists and people without cars could get out. Just no way.

As far as the rescue goes, I don't know exactly when the governor asked for federal troops; that request was necessary under the Posse Comitatus Act. The Louisiana National Guard, 3/4ths of which, including their Engineers (though not the Combat Engineers, whose duties are different) were in the state and other states quickly offered their troops. Yet the delay and organization seemed slow.

It seems that everyone was taken by surprise with how the storm seemed to be averted at the last second, yet the levee then broke later. More damningly, there seems to have been no real plan for rescuing people who couldn't get out. The chain of command still doesn't seem clear.


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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 11:03 PM   #134
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Re: Horrifying

Another perspective:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050901/D8CBNMA88.html

Newsview: Politicians Failed Storm Victims

Sep 1, 6:06 PM (ET)

By RON FOURNIER

WASHINGTON (AP) - At every turn, political leaders failed Katrina's victims. They didn't strengthen the levees. They ceded the streets to marauding looters. They left dead bodies to rot or bloat. Thousands suffered or died for lack of water, food and hope. Who's at fault?

There's plenty of blame to go around - the White House, Congress, federal agencies, local governments, police and even residents of the Gulf Coast who refused orders to evacuate. But all the finger-pointing misses the point: Politicians and the people they lead too often ignore danger signs until a crisis hits.

It wasn't a secret that levees built to keep New Orleans from flooding could not withstand a major hurricane, but government leaders never found the money to fully shore up the network of earthen, steel and concrete barriers.

Both the Bush and Clinton administrations proposed budgets that low-balled the needs. Local politicians grabbed whatever money they could and declared victory. And the public didn't exactly demand tax increases to pay for flood-control and hurricane-protection projects.

Just last year, the Army Corps of Engineers sought $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans. The White House slashed the request to about $40 million. Congress finally approved $42.2 million, less than half of the agency's request.

Yet the lawmakers and Bush agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-laden highway bill that included more than 6,000 pet projects for lawmakers. Congress spent money on dust control for Arkansas roads, a warehouse on the Erie Canal and a $231 million bridge to a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

How could Washington spend $231 million on a bridge to nowhere - and not find $42 million for hurricane and flood projects in New Orleans? It's a matter of power and politics.

Alaska is represented by Republican Rep. Don Young, chairman of the House Transportation Committee, and Republican Sen. Ted Stevens, a senior member of the all-important Senate Appropriations Committee. Louisiana's delegation holds far less sway.

Once the hurricane hit, relief trickled into the Gulf Coast. Even Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown, whose agency is in charge of disaster response, pronounced the initial results unacceptable.

The hurricane was the first major test of FEMA since it became part of the Homeland Security Department, a massive new bureaucracy that many feared would make the well-respected FEMA another sluggish federal agency.

Looting soon broke out as local police stood by. Some police didn't want to stop people from getting badly needed food and water. Others seemed to be overwhelmed. Thousands of National Guard troops were ordered to the Gulf Coast, but their ranks have been drastically thinned by the war in Iraq.

On top of all this, Katrina is one of the worst natural disasters ever to hit the United States. The best leaders running the most efficient agencies would have been sharply challenged.

"Look at all they've had to deal with," former President Clinton told CNN shortly after joining former President Bush on a fundraising campaign for hurricane relief. "I'm telling you, nobody every thought it would happen like this."

That's not true. Experts had predicted for years that a major hurricane would eventually hit New Orleans, swamping the levees and filling the bowl-shaped city with polluted water. The politicians are doing what they do in time of crisis - shifting the blame.

"The truth will speak for itself," Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., said of potential lapses by government. Later, her office blamed the White House for budget cuts.

If it's not the Republicans' fault, perhaps some in Washington would like to blame New Orleans itself. House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., questioned whether a city that lies below sea level should be rebuilt. "That doesn't make sense to me," he said.

But for anybody living - or dying - in the devastated region, there are far too many villains to name.

"We're out here like pure animals. We don't have help," the Rev. Issac Clark, 68, said outside the New Orleans Convention Center.

Robin Lovin, ethics professor at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, said it's too convenient to blame one branch of government when they are all, at some level, failing people. From Watergate to Clinton's impeachment, governmental institutions have disappointed the public.

"Bush, Congress, the mayor - each of them are symptoms of a bigger problem, that we don't have accountability for disasters or challenges of this scale," Lovin said. "That's all the public wants in trying times - accountability."

Thus, Americans are doing what people do when government lets them down - they're turning to each other. Donations are pouring into charities. Internet sites are being used to find relatives. Residents of far-off states are opening their homes to victims.

The community spirit is reminiscent of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. So is the second-guessing. It will happen again after the next crisis. You've heard the warnings: a cataclysmic California earthquake, another terrorist strike, a flu pandemic, a nuclear plant meltdown, a tsunami, the failure to address mounting U.S. debt - and on and on.

Will the public and its leaders be better prepared next time?

---

EDITOR'S NOTE - Ron Fournier has covered politics for The Associated Press since 1993.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 11:19 PM   #135
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Halliburton hired for storm cleanup

The Navy has hired Houston-based Halliburton Co. to restore electric power, repair roofs and remove debris at three naval facilities in Mississippi damaged by Hurricane Katrina.

Halliburton subsidiary KBR will also perform damage assessments at other naval installations in New Orleans as soon as it is safe to do so.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-03-2005, 07:45 AM   #136
 
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Re: Horrifying

"Let them eat cake?"* No, no.* NO!

It's fiddling while Rome burns.* Or perhaps "I'm jes' a singin' cowboy."

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
I am more than a little disturbed by the "let them eat cake" attitude the administration seems to have displayed.* We even seem to have our own, modern-day Marie Antoinette:* "Did New Yorkers chase Condoleezza Rice back to Washington yesterday?
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-03-2005, 08:00 AM   #137
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
Another perspective:



Will the public and its leaders be better prepared next time?

---
Nope.

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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-03-2005, 08:16 AM   #138
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-Jarhead






Roger that!
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-03-2005, 09:48 AM   #139
 
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I've been hesitating to post this opinion, but just thought I'd bring it up.*

The problem here is also partly a problem of overpopulation.* When you've got 484,000 people packed into a below-sea-level city, you've got to expect that when a problem hits, the system collapses.* A lot of urban crowding and suburban sprawl can just barely work when everything is running OK (that is, there are terrible traffic jams but people can get where they're going), but throw a monkey wrench in (storm, earthquake, evacuation), and you have a mess.

Overpopulation also caused much of the wetlands hurricane buffer to be lost.

OK, I'm off my soap box now.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-03-2005, 10:09 AM   #140
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Re: Horrifying

I remember as a kid (not that long ago ), one of the US geography trivia questions was along the lines of, "which US city is below sea level?"* Others* were which states have a panhandle, yada, yada.* So far as I know these questions are still pretty universal.
So if every kid knows the problem, doesn't it seem like an adult somewhere would have found a solution?
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