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Old 05-05-2009, 05:59 PM   #21
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* I'd think twice about the gun unless you are really living in a bad location. My nightstand .38 has blanks. A .22 pistol is hidden, but has real lead.
Well, you probably anticipated a comment like this . . .
Why the blanks? I'm having trouble coming up with a situation where that would be desirable. Even if (very unlikely) you needed/wanted to discharge the weapon without shooting the intruder (to convince someone you were serious), you'd want to instantly be able to escalate if the intruder has a weapon. Repairing the ceiling and the roof is fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things.
And why have the .38 with blanks and the .22 with live rounds? Maybe the .22 is an autoloader that won't cycle with blanks?
As a note to others (I'm sure you know this JPatrick)--blanks are not a "safer" answer if you have little ones in the house. They can kill or do serious damage at short range.
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:26 PM   #22
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I recently had the bike seat stolen while my bike was locked up downtown. Doesn't sound so bad, but it ended up costing more than $100 for a new seat, seat tube, leash, collar, and LED light.

Normally I would have taken a while to replace everything much more cheaply, but there's something to be said for the psychology of just getting on with life after such a violation. I decided to just walk in to the nearest bike store and get everything done right then, rather than gnashing my teeth about my unfixed bike while waiting for internet items. I must say it feels good that they didn't take me down.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:28 PM   #23
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One of the advantages to living in a townhome in a busy neighborhood is a feeling of security. A burglar would have a very difficult task breaking in without someone noticing. Also, I have a very sweet dog with a scary big dog bark.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:46 PM   #24
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I recently had the bike seat stolen while my bike was locked up downtown.

I decided to just walk in to the nearest bike store and get everything done right then, rather than gnashing my teeth about my unfixed bike while waiting for internet items. I must say it feels good that they didn't take me down.
"Hey, the plan is working. We didn't sell five bike seats all last year, but since we hired Jimmy to generate some demand in the local area we've sold five this week. And, we've got some good used inventory to sell in our other shop."
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:19 PM   #25
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Sorry to hear of your intrusion. I too had a few so far minor property crimes. I have now two 4 camera dvr systems that email snapshots (and ftp off site) when a camera scene changes x %. Also i can peek in while traveling. The model 760 value series from Plus CCTV systems pluscctv pluscctvusa plus cctv usa (also a few bucks less from their ebay store) is recommended. Also I keep a 45 handy but thinking through liability or the perpetrators cousin/gang... I am probably more reluctant to shoot the more I think through it. But for certain it will be an option.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:53 PM   #26
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Citrine, why didn't your smoke alarm go off?

In most condos they automatically contact the fire department if they aren't cleared in the first minute.
It did....but I was not home.....and neither was my upstairs neighbor...he got hit too, but only I got the smoke!
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:12 PM   #27
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Well, you probably anticipated a comment like this . . .

Which apparently implies that it is a stupid comment. Nonetheless, I'd encourage the average citizen to think twice about the blasting away option
Why the blanks? I'm having trouble coming up with a situation where that would be desirable. Even if (very unlikely) you needed/wanted to discharge the weapon without shooting the intruder (to convince someone you were serious), you'd want to instantly be able to escalate if the intruder has a weapon. Repairing the ceiling and the roof is fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things.
We need to keep in mind that I live in Hooterville and I am preparing for the most likely senario, not the worst possible. I don't foresee a need to pack an ozi or a Ft Knox level security system. If it becomes necessary I'll probably move 20 miles out of Hooterville. It might shock some to know that I packed a similar .38 for many years with the first chamber empty. My original plan was to have that first cylinder holding a blank followed by 5 live rounds. I like the thought of a strong warning before deadly force. I bet it would play well in court also. The only reason I put the live ammo in the .22 is because we have a bit of animal risk here and the .22 is more comfortable for that task.
I have a really tough time envisioning a situation where someone gets by my substantial doors, my early warning alarms and then actually wants to harm anyone after I've made a really big bang. Of course the reality is, that if a breakin occurs I probably will be miles away as is generally the case. But fear not, I've got those real bullets around here somewhere is the situation worsens.
And why have the .38 with blanks and the .22 with live rounds? Maybe the .22 is an autoloader that won't cycle with blanks?
As a note to others (I'm sure you know this JPatrick)--blanks are not a "safer" answer if you have little ones in the house. They can kill or do serious damage at short range.
...
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:18 AM   #28
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these .223 assault rifle rounds
Is the .223 "assault" rifle round any more powerful than the regular .223 REM/5.56 NATO round?

Partly pulling your leg, but I believe in minimizing use of the "assault rifle" moniker. I've shot .223 rifles and pistols, single shot, semi and full auto (hey even 3 round burst!).
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:21 PM   #29
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Is the .223 "assault" rifle round any more powerful than the regular .223 REM/5.56 NATO round?

Partly pulling your leg, but I believe in minimizing use of the "assault rifle" moniker. I've shot .223 rifles and pistols, single shot, semi and full auto (hey even 3 round burst!).
Right, obviously there's no type of ammo technically known as an "assault rifle round." The .223 round could be used in a bolt-action hunting rifle, etc. But, most people are familiar with the M-16/M-4 line of weapons, so I just wanted to make clear that the .223 round was used in them. And I'm sure more .223 (aka 5.56 NATO) rounds are fired in military weapons every year than in varmint rifles.
Is assault rifle a dirty word? I'm using the term in the same way you probably would--a selective fire weapon with various design features (accessory rail, bipod and bayonet lugs, rapidly field-stripable, etc, etc) optimized for military use. The fact that the anti-gun crowd has branded every black rifle with a plastic stock as an "assault rifle" is no reason to cede the fight and abandon perfectly appropriate terminology.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:34 PM   #30
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It seems like most people's reaction when they get robbed is to go out to get a gun, just like I did many years ago. It did take me a few years to calm down. However, I did take gun ownership very seriously, and in fact became an enthusiast at the gun range for a while for target shooting. Please be careful with the use of a gun for home protection. I believe if there is an intruder in the house, making noises or to project your awareness should cause him to flee. The gun should be used as the last resort. In fact, I am at the point now where I would not want to shoot anybody if I don't have to. Having a gun in my hand simply makes me calmer and more confident.

I still remember a story about a father who shot his teenage daughter who foolishly tried to surprise him. Yes, the daughter died in his arm.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:41 PM   #31
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It seems like most people's reaction when they get robbed is to go out to get a gun, just like I did many years ago. It did take me a few years to calm down. However, I did take gun ownership very seriously, and in fact became an enthusiast at the gun range for a while for target shooting. Please be careful with the use of a gun for home protection. I believe if there is an intruder in the house, making noises or to project your awareness should cause him to flee. The gun should be used as the last resort. In fact, I am at the point now where I would not want to shoot anybody if I don't have to. Having a gun in my hand simply makes me calmer and more confident.

I still remember a story about a father who shot his teenage daughter who foolishly tried to surprise him. Yes, the daughter died in his arm.
What about all the stories of thwarting off attackers.. Yeah. Its a tool. Learn to use it properly..
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:46 PM   #32
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As said, I would not pursue to kill anyone, if it is only property crime. But if I fear for my life and my family's safety, I would have no qualm about pulling the trigger. I have shot a few thousand rounds at the range for practice, and also have prepared mentally if it comes down to that. Hope it will never happen though.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:50 PM   #33
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As far as using the gun to shoot anyone, I think I would retreat to my locked office, call the police, and only shoot if they were to kick in the office door knowing that I am in there.

Given that the Ruger 1022 Carbine is a bit underpowered I had my eye on one of these babies

FN PS90 5.7x28mm Civilian Legal Semi Auto - Military Photos

However, the ammo is very expensive (NATO 9mm pistol ammo). The gun fanatic forum had posts that felt that the civilian ammo was a bit light for combat and the military grade ammo is illegal.

The FN PS90 seems to have all the advantages of my easy to handle carbine, plus more powerful bullets and a nice 50 round clip.

My research indicated that the best home defense weapon for the average home owner is a small pump action shot gun with five or six round capacity and loaded with something like double 0 shot. They said that the average scared person cannot aim a pistol under pressure.

The other thing that the research uncovered that poured cold water on my rush to get a weapon was that if you have a gun you need to come to grips with the idea that you are making a potential commitment to living with the trauma of having killed someone, getting the crap sued out of you for shooting someone and possibly going to prison for the rest of your life if they don't buy the self defense justification. That is a sobering set of concepts.

I have ordered some temporary security devices just to give me a little piece of mind. The first one is a $40 battery operated motion detector with a noise and strobe light. It can just sit on the table or be mounted to the wall and you control it with a remote control.

I also ordered these two door stop alarms that will sound off when pressure is applied to them and also help to keep the door from being pushed open. The can be useful when sleeping in hotel rooms as well.

I would have liked to have a nice video to give to the police so I am looking into some CCD camera systems. Amazon had a nice one with 4 cameras, DVR and the ability to access it from the web.

I noticed the X10 home automation and security stuff that SamClem mentioned today. I worry that the typical installer will be an incompetent rip-off, so doing it myself seems like a better idea.

I ordered the book X10 home automation and security for dummies this morning to get a start on reading about it.

Being a programmer I like the idea of being able to write a program to control the devices myself. I would also like to be able to do something with the cameras to be able to record the video on my PC, but to then copy the video data up to the web cloud (either to Amazon storage or to my web server at work). That way if they take the PC I still have the pictures. The other choice would be to build some sort of bomb shelter to hold the security computers.

I am also using my digital camera to take a much more extensive set of pictures of everything I own. For example I am snapping all of my music CD's (which I am told are a prime item to steal) and will make a spreadsheet with the inventory to cut down on the trouble dealing with the insurance company if I have to file a claim.

Thanks to everyone for all of the kind words and sympathy for my situation. It really helps to know that others have gone through the same situation.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:53 PM   #34
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"My research indicated that the best home defense weapon for the average home owner is a small pump action shot gun with five or six round capacity and loaded with something like double 0 shot. They said that the average scared person cannot aim a pistol under pressure."

Yeah. Its nice if you live in an apartment. You wont risk shooting through walls.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:59 PM   #35
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Same thing with the PS90. It is intended for urban combat and anti-terrorist operations where they don't want to risk shooting each other while clearing a building.

However, as one other poster mentioned, it would really piss me off if someone broke in an stole the PS90 while I was out of the house.

It would be nice to get a weapon that had the electronics to match it to an RFID chip implanted in your hand so that only you can fire it.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:04 AM   #36
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I agree with the shotgun. I own one myself. Either get a 20-gauge or 12-gauge and use 00-buck rounds. You can find low-recoil rounds specifically made for home defense. Prices are a bit high right now due to a recent gun-buying craze, but some Remington 870 Express models still look reasonably priced. Don't spend more than $400 on a shotgun, however, unless it's got some special added feature like rust-resistant nickel plating or laser sights.

Additionally, I'd look into getting some very thorny rose bushes or cacti to put near all of your points of entry. We have plenty at home. They are just beautiful to landscape and they provide simple, natural security.

As a general practice, we turn the TV on and leave it playing if we're going to be gone for more than a day or two. We turn on a light or two and close all of the blinds and curtains. It leaves the impression that someone is still home. Sure, it may cost us a few extra bucks in electricty, but that sure beats having to spend through the nose to replace stolen property.

Also, you can call or make an online request with the post office that all of your mail should be held for a specific number of days. They can then deliver it upon your return or you can go and pick it up.

If you want to get an attack dog, the best kind are Dobermans. They have the playfulness of a golden retriever but can be as deadly as a German Shepard or bulldog when the appropriate situation arises. They are sleek and agile and very hard to outrun. They are very keen to strange happenings and can tell when someone is not supposed to be around, and they are very protective of their owners and can tell when you feel unsafe. I remember spending my early childhood days with a Doberman at my side. Needless to say, I was hardly ever bullied! LOL
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Old 05-07-2009, 11:50 AM   #37
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One aspect of home defense is how it looks to the robber in relation to other homes around you. If your house looks like the easier target with the least chance of problems they will choose your house.
In addition to all that was mentioned don't forget fake things also help - e.g. cameras and security company lawn signs.
Try to look at your house the way a robber would and then correct what you can.
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Old 05-07-2009, 11:55 AM   #38
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Reminds me, I've gotta get offline to get back to my book, "Cutting for Stone." The author is a doctor who explains the difference between cure and healing. Cure happens after your house is looted and the cops show up to deliver all your stuff back to you. Healing is harder.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:11 PM   #39
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I agree with the shotgun. I own one myself. Either get a 20-gauge or 12-gauge and use 00-buck rounds.
I don't want to turn this into another firearm thread, but here's another comment: Anyone considering a shotgun for home defense (a good choice in my opinion, especially if you and the family are going to just hunker down in a corner and wait for the thugs to leave) should also consider going with #4 or even #6 shot rather than buckshot. Any engagement will be at very close range, and you are giving up almost nothing in effects on the target by going with the smaller shot (it's the same or more total weight of lead. There will be less penetration, but in a small room it will still be an ounce of lead in a pattern approximately 1" across--it's gonna do what needs to be done). By the time it reaches the other side of a typical room, the pattern is broader and #6 shot will be spread out enough (several inches) that each pellet has to penetrate the drywall individually, and they often won't penetrate a second sheet (into another room)--and if it does get through, it wil be going very slow. 00 buck will penetrate many (up to eight) sheets of drywall, and if there other people in your home (or in a neighbor's house), those .30 caliber rounds are potentially gonna hurt somebody.
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Old 05-08-2009, 01:20 AM   #40
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00 buck will penetrate many (up to eight) sheets of drywall...
I hope this data is based on laboratory testing and not personal experience...
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