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Old 11-25-2007, 06:18 PM   #21
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I, too, side with quality of life over quantity. I'm forecasting to 2030. Chances are my personal, the planet's, or society's health will be on life support by then. And I've seen enough to know that death is not the worst that can happen to a person.

Always the optimist, I'll say that targetting a drop-dead date sure simplifies retirement planning!
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:08 PM   #22
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Lazy, I know exactly exactly what you mean. Mom's AD was early onset.

Here's the rub: If you decide you don't want to go down that same road, how do you know when to pull the plug. I'm already several years older than Mom was when her AD began. I am also keeping my options open...and hoping that I'll still remember what the options were for when I get to the point where I need to exercise them!
twinkle, i've got--as you likely already know--bad news, good news and no news.

the bad is early onset. so sorry to hear it. mom's was supposedly late onset though i'm not convinced that science is sure. even while always health conscious & well monitored & helped by psychologists throughout her life, mom wasn't diagnosed until she had trouble functioning at work in her mid 60s. brother & i assumed guardianship when she was about 70. but on looking back at earlier behaviors in the later light of the alzheimer's which developed, possibly mom was dealing with this for a very long time.

still, i understand that early onset can cause death even as early as one's 20s, 30s or 40s. it is truly devastating, sometimes hitting young families leaving the spouse to deal with the decline and then the death and then to continue as a single parent. not an easy life. also decendants of early a.d. victims are more likely to develop the disease than are those of late onset. the good news then is that if you have already survived past your mom's age then perhaps you have been spared. i wish you the best in that.

but if we are not spared, how do we time our exit just right. i would hate to die while i was still having fun and still with money to spend. the no news is, of course, that we will not know until we get there.

if you are brave enough in your convictions and secure enough in your beliefs then a window of opportunity will open for you between the time you realize your fate and then either denying or accepting that fate or taking no action and allowing such fate by default to reign. once the window closes only free will escapes and you are left to the fates.
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:21 PM   #23
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financial planning - I plan to live forever, with expensive medical problems. Pretty much covered.

time planning - I try to live like I only have a year left. I still am trying to break some bad habits
(like too much time in front of the computer) since retiring last year
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:23 PM   #24
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Lazy, thanks for the kind words. For the most part, I'm optimistic about the future. I must confess, when I lose the keys or something, I am ever so grateful when I remember where I put them...and that it wasn't in the frig!
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:31 PM   #25
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How long do you think you will live?
How long do you think you will actually live vs how long do your retirement plans have you living?
Current biological estimates of telomeresis set the max at 120 years, and a woman in France managed to squeak a couple years past that. So we plan for a max age of 120. Not many retirement calculators want to tackle that goal.

Spouse's grandparents all went into their 90s or possibly 100s. (They lied about their ages for official documents so frequently that even they couldn't remember the facts.) Spouse assures me that her longevity will give her plenty of opportunity to nag me, which will somehow inspire me to keep waking up in the mornings. I keep trying to reserve the right to consult with an equivalent number of 21-year-old women to her age, but negotiations are currently deadlocked. Perhaps marriage just makes old age seem longer in a relativistic sense.

My parents/grandparents are all over the map but 90 isn't out of the question as long as I avoid cerebral hemorrhages and breast cancer. Hopefully there are no significant adverse longevity effects from acute exposure to volcanic ash or low chronic doses of ionizing radiation.

What really gives us the will to live is (1) collecting more pension than salary and (2) joining our alma mater's top ten oldest alumni. Currently the club membership doesn't even open below triple digits, and the record-holder made it until 110.

I can understand the bold sentiments & brave talk behind taking high-caliber control of one's lifespan, but my grandfather's 14 years of dementia were among the happiest of his life. (Pneumonia at age 97.) I wonder if the "we" that we're all going to become will want to be forced to live up to our current standards, or if we'll look to the examples set by Hawking & Reeves. If the Internet is this much fun now, imagine how it'll be with personal jetcars & virtual-reality biofeedback circuits!
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:01 PM   #26
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I can understand the bold sentiments & brave talk behind taking high-caliber control of one's lifespan, but my grandfather's 14 years of dementia were among the happiest of his life. (Pneumonia at age 97.) I wonder if the "we" that we're all going to become will want to be forced to live up to our current standards, or if we'll look to the examples set by Hawking & Reeves. If the Internet is this much fun now, imagine how it'll be with personal jetcars & virtual-reality biofeedback circuits!
i know my talk is somewhat only brave now and i realize that i don't know how i will feel down the road. i mightn't even talk that way now if the detrimental prospects were just physical in nature (not that a.d. isn't physical).

as much as i enjoy a good time, the most important thing to me--and it has been the most important thing to me for as far back as i can remember thinking--is the ability to explore myself to see just who it is i think i am. for me that is the greatest gift of life, that is the revelation, that is humanity, to be able to face ourselves, to know ourselves, and maybe even to share what we know.

and so for me alzheimer's makes of life, at best, such a tease.

but even alzheimer's can be somewhat survived. for as much as mom lost, she never lost completely the sense of herself and she always recognized my love, all the way to her death when her organs simply shut down. but she was amazing. most i've seen--and i've seen many--do not seem to experience a.d. like that.

my brother has already predetermined that he will endure a.d. should it strike him. but he also has a wife and three kids to care for him so it might be "braver" now for him to make such a future decision but more practical than brave for me, a single guy with no kids, to make mine. certainly, even if i was willing to live like that, i will not get the extremely good care my mother received or that my brother can expect. in fact, it would not be too unlikely that i could be physically abused by some homophobic nurse's aid. so maybe my decision isn't so brave after all. perhaps i'm just protecting myself.
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:11 PM   #27
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[quote=Nords

I can understand the bold sentiments & brave talk behind taking high-caliber control of one's lifespan, but my grandfather's 14 years of dementia were among the happiest of his life. (Pneumonia at age 97.) I wonder if the "we" that we're all going to become will want to be forced to live up to our current standards, or if we'll look to the examples set by Hawking & Reeves. If the Internet is this much fun now, imagine how it'll be with personal jetcars & virtual-reality biofeedback circuits![/quote]
There! You went and did it...made me feel bad for being such a whiner! Hawking is such a hero of mine. I know he has at least one more brilliant theory in him and I hope he's able to share it with the world. And Reeves was Superman! I hope to be able to live long enough to enjoy my nest egg.

I posted on another thread about long term care expenses for parents and it reminded me of the AZ thing again. Sorry, didn't mean to be a downer!
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:27 PM   #28
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I can understand the bold sentiments & brave talk behind taking high-caliber control of one's lifespan, but my grandfather's 14 years of dementia were among the happiest of his life. (Pneumonia at age 97.) I wonder if the "we" that we're all going to become will want to be forced to live up to our current standards, or if we'll look to the examples set by Hawking & Reeves. If the Internet is this much fun now, imagine how it'll be with personal jetcars & virtual-reality biofeedback circuits!
Well, now you've done it...gone and made me feel like a real whiner. Hawking is one of my heros. I'm sure he has at least one more brilliant theory, if he can just get it out of his brain and on paper. And Reeves is Superman! I really am looking forward to spending my nest egg...my spread sheet goes to 100.

I posted on a thread today about long term care expenses for parents and that's when the AD thing hit me in the face again. Didn't mean to be a downer. I usually only think of shooting myself if I have to sit through another "news" report about Anna Nicole or Britney Spears.
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:39 PM   #29
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Oops!

Dang new computer! That's twice now that I 've posted without even knowing it. Have to turn down that touch pad or something. Sorry guys!
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:18 PM   #30
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Mom made it to 85, dad to 80. With medical advances, and my adopting a healthy lifestyle, and ER giving me "no stress", I figure to hang on into my 90's and will shoot for 100.
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:00 AM   #31
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3 of my grandparents made it to mid 90's,the one that smoked made it to 76.
Parents are in their mid 80's and gong strong.They both just bought themselves new cars..So my guess for me is mid 80's or if i dont give up cigars mid 70's.
However their are always lifes hidden cards that get dealt on a regular basis as an example 43,000 people in the USA lost their lives due to road accidents last year.
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Old 11-26-2007, 07:41 AM   #32
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Our local solution to the desire to check out early is to die in a snowbank with a bottle of booze.

Frankly, I think most people who say they will not want to live in a nursing home, or with Alzheimers, or with other health problems, will end up changing their mind. Old age sneaks up on you and you adapt.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:18 AM   #33
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I expect to check out in my mid-eighties, perhaps even earlier. DW should make it to mid-nineties. My spreadsheets plan to 90 usually.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:32 AM   #34
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~ another 20 years.

I'm 64 now, in good health and no medical issues.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:38 AM   #35
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I plan for 100. Both parents are in the mid 80's and still going, more slowly but on their own and doing what they want.

I never expected my mother to last this long: 50 year smoker (quit at 81), history of beign brain tumor, benign and cancerous breast tumors, bladder cancer, overweight, never exercised, not the best diet (could be worse). Father has the heart disease/diabetes combo but is well controlled. He has better health habits than mom, but had gained that 2lbs /year for 30 years, though started exercising about 10 years ago and lost some the excess weight.

With that history, I figure my own good diet, exercise, and weight control combined with better medicine now, I see 100 as a good round number for planning. Of course, there is always that bus that could run me down
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:38 AM   #36
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I just finished Helen Nearing's Loving and Leaving the Good Life. You may remember she and Scott Nearing being the original hippie-back-to-nature-homesteaders. They wrote for Mother Earth in the 70's and were major radicals in their day.

Scott, about a month before his 100th birthday, just quit eating. He died purposefully fasting, after about a month and a half. Very interesting account of a peaceful end. Wonder if this happens more than we think, although the snowbank is compelling, Martha! Except I'd wait a long time for some snow down here!

Helen died at 90, and it was interesting to reflect on their long healthy life after reading the importance of the nutrition/exercise/commitment lifestyle preached in that new book, Younger Next Year. I highly recommend that book, BTW, especially for the menfolk. Same info your doctor has been saying for years, but in a dude-friendly format.
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:43 AM   #37
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Anything over 80 is frosting on the cake.
It may look like frosting, but it's actually drool.
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:47 AM   #38
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Although the online tests say I'll live to 102, if I sit and read a book for a few hours, I can be cold even though the wood stove is going and it is 75 degrees in the room. That's gotten worse, so I say if that's how I am at age 54, what's it going to be like when I'm 70?
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:51 AM   #39
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Scott, about a month before his 100th birthday, just quit eating. He died purposefully fasting, after about a month and a half. Very interesting account of a peaceful end.
I'm going to have to read that one. My mother chose essentially the same exit from her pain associated with metastasized breast cancer and bone embrittlement. She died the morning after spouse & I flew in to be with her.

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Helen died at 90, and it was interesting to reflect on their long healthy life after reading the importance of the nutrition/exercise/commitment lifestyle preached in that new book, Younger Next Year. I highly recommend that book, BTW, especially for the menfolk.
I enjoyed reading the book (especially its thoughfully reasoned advice like "Quit eating crap!!") but now my main motivation for exercising every day is to be able to invite Chris Crowley to visit us here in Hawaii-- so that I can kick his ass. Talk about being a whipping boy for the entire Boomer demographic.

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Although the online tests say I'll live to 102, if I sit and read a book for a few hours, I can be cold even though the wood stove is going and it is 75 degrees in the room. That's gotten worse, so I say if that's how I am at age 54, what's it going to be like when I'm 70?
Like a Minnesota snowbank.

It's just your body voting for another trip to Hawaii...
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:54 AM   #40
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Although the online tests say I'll live to 102, if I sit and read a book for a few hours, I can be cold even though the wood stove is going and it is 75 degrees in the room. That's gotten worse, so I say if that's how I am at age 54, what's it going to be like when I'm 70?
Why do you think so many old folks move to the southern extremes of CA, TX, AZ and FL? Because it feels good to those old bones. We routinely spend the winter months in southern AZ and CA.
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