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Old 08-09-2013, 09:20 AM   #21
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Agreed. My final two glasses from a box generally involve me tearing the bladder out of the box and squeezing the last bit of wine out.
Ditto.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:08 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by haha View Post
I should also say that I am no one's idea of a wine connoisseur, so I may not even perceive some degree of spoilage.
To go off topic, this New Yorker article from 2002 by Calvin Trillon about people not being able to tell the difference between red and white wine in a blind taste test has always tickled me.

Annals of Taste: The Red and the White : The New Yorker
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #23
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Boxed wine

What would the neighbors say?

From the cheap b@stard handbook:
Maybe you could freeze some of the wine and thaw it later (when those acquaintances come crashing over)? Just like milk.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Free To Canoe View Post
Boxed wine

What would the neighbors say?
I'll bring my own glass if you don't have enough?

I enjoy a good glass of wine. Boxed wine is a great idea. Easy to package and transport, easier to protect the contents from spoiling.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:31 PM   #25
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:33 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Free To Canoe View Post
Boxed wine

What would the neighbors say?

From the cheap b@stard handbook:
Maybe you could freeze some of the wine and thaw it later (when those acquaintances come crashing over)? Just like milk.
Tell the neighbors that boxed wine, by using less and different packaging per ounce, is very environmentally friendly. If they can perfect bio-plastics for the inside to hold the wine, that would add to it. Say that by drinking boxed wine, you are saving the planet on drink at a time. As opposed to whatever they (the neighbor) is drinking. Like cheap vodka out of plastic bottles.
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:31 PM   #27
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I have a friend who's very into wine. He could probably be labeled a wine snob.

The subject of box wine came up once, and he said, "Wine that comes in a bladder will never go into mine."

LOL - I thought he was joking, but he was quite serious. I guess he has a thing against screw caps, too, but I've too afraid to bring that subject up
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:35 PM   #28
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Not to hijack this thread, but I am having a Chardonnay tasting party at my house on Sunday, any recommendations? I plan to have an under $10 bottle, two around 12-15 and one 25-30, doing a blind tasting with a bunch of other geezers, none of us are wine snobs.
Bonterra Chardonnay. 12-15 range.
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:57 PM   #29
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Not into wine but I have found that beer will last much longer than the "born on " date would lead you to believe. Three years ago my DSIL bought a case of Bud light on a visit to the lake house. He only drinks a couple and no one else would touch the stuff. Each year I stick the remaining cans in the fridge before his visit and he consumes a couple more. He feels we are very considerate to stock his beverage of choice. I 'll let you all know how long beer can last, for what it's worth
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:44 PM   #30
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...

On the more rudimentary side, is not wine aged for many years in casks or in the case of iirc K&W winery outside of Cape Town, Africa, in 15 to 20 thousad gallon underground tanks.

Cheers!
Yes, but a large cask has a much lower surface area per unit volume than a 3L bag. Oxygen permeation is going to be a function of surface area and permeability, and those bags are thin plastic.

If I did my geometry right, a 100 inch radius sphere would have a Surface Area to volume ratio that is 100x lower than a 1 inch radius sphere.

Even if I did the math wrong, it's a lot lower!

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Old 08-09-2013, 05:30 PM   #31
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Yes, but a large cask has a much lower surface area per unit volume than a 3L bag. Oxygen permeation is going to be a function of surface area and permeability, and those bags are thin plastic.

If I did my geometry right, a 100 inch radius sphere would have a Surface Area to volume ratio that is 100x lower than a 1 inch radius sphere.

Even if I did the math wrong, it's a lot lower!

-ERD50
My vote is a taste test in Cape Town.

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:25 PM   #32
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Yes, but a large cask has a much lower surface area per unit volume than a 3L bag. Oxygen permeation is going to be a function of surface area and permeability, and those bags are thin plastic.

If I did my geometry right, a 100 inch radius sphere would have a Surface Area to volume ratio that is 100x lower than a 1 inch radius sphere.

Even if I did the math wrong, it's a lot lower!

-ERD50
Written like a true engineer.

By the way I do not know the porosity, hence the air penetration of wooden barrels used to age the stuff versus a plastic bag enclosed in a paper box. OTOH I am reasonably sure that some modern wineries use stainless steel containers with no porosity.

Would be nice to have a qualified vintner explain the process.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:29 PM   #33
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I vote with several people....if it isn't open it can last a long time. But....if the seal comes off, it MUST be consumed....soon.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ls99 View Post
Written like a true engineer.
And home-brewer!

Quote:
By the way I do not know the porosity, hence the air penetration of wooden barrels used to age the stuff versus a plastic bag enclosed in a paper box. OTOH I am reasonably sure that some modern wineries use stainless steel containers with no porosity.

Would be nice to have a qualified vintner explain the process.
The info can be found on the web. I've seen some of it before, but would need to do a fair amount of searching to find it again. It is an important parameter for storing beer/wine.

Many beer-brewers ferment in food-grade plastic buckets. There is some oxidation concern over leaving the beer in there for more than about 8 weeks (3-4 is typical), and these are pretty thick buckets (similar to the common 5-gal pails you see). The wine bags are pretty thin, but they may have an oxygen barrier layer. Home brewers will transfer to a glass carboy or SS keg if they need to store it longer.

Wood barrel aging adds character, and I know that small barrels mean short aging times, due to that surface area/volume effect.

Then again, some beverages are expected to have some oxidation as part of the flavor profile - some sherry/port and some barley-wines (very strong, aged beer).

-ERD50
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:11 PM   #35
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I vote with several people....if it isn't open it can last a long time. But....if the seal comes off, it MUST be consumed....soon.
You mean the little foil seal over the spout? Really?

When you pour it, no air gets in - liquid is coming out, I don't think seal or no seal is a concern.

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Old 08-11-2013, 06:14 PM   #36
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Unopened box wine has a life of about 6 months (can't remember where I read that) because, unlike a glass bottle, the plastic breathes a bit. So, check the dates when you buy.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:21 PM   #37
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If I would take 2 months to use a 3L box of wine, will it keep reasonably well in the fridge for that time?
I suspect that it would last a long time, due to no oxidation from air.

However, I only buy wine bottles out of habit. And a bottle, once opened, usually lasts less than one week.

At dinner time, if I see that opened bottle in the fridge, I will pour myself a glass. Then, when it runs out, it may be some time before I feel like opening another one. An unopened bottle lasts a lot longer for that reason, but it has nothing to do with oxidation.
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