How often do you not tip wait staff?

[Dtail]

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Originally Posted by The HalfBreed I start at 20%, and let the waiter /waitress work their way down. To Zero if needed.

Same here for the most part. Probably left zero once so many years ago.
Will leave a really low tip if it is more obvious that it is the servers' fault vs. possibly the kitchen.

[audreyh1]

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Originally Posted by Sunset They get the the base wage + tips, or the employer has to increase payment to make up for a lack of tips. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage "The tipped wage is base wage paid to an employee that receives a substantial portion of their compensation from tips. According to a common labor law provision referred to as a "tip credit", the employee must earn at least the state’s minimum wage when tips and wages are combined or the employer is required to increase the wage to fulfill that threshold. This ensures that all tipped employees earn at least the minimum wage: significantly more than the tipped minimum wage."

That is correct!

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset They get the the base wage + tips, or the employer has to increase payment to make up for a lack of tips. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage "The tipped wage is base wage paid to an employee that receives a substantial portion of their compensation from tips. According to a common labor law provision referred to as a "tip credit", the employee must earn at least the state’s minimum wage when tips and wages are combined or the employer is required to increase the wage to fulfill that threshold. This ensures that all tipped employees earn at least the minimum wage: significantly more than the tipped minimum wage."

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 That is correct!

However, as I said earlier, in practice employers may penalize wait staff if they are asked to supplement the wage in this manner. It was made clear to me in no uncertain terms at a few different restaurants that no one should ever ask for a tip credit or they would be fired. I'm sure this was not limited just to New Jersey in the late 80s-early 90s.

[dirtbiker]

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Originally Posted by Old Microbiologist I live in Europe where tipping is not typical nor is it expected. All wait staff are salaried just like those in the kitchen who never get any tips in the US yet actually prepare the food so are more important to the safety and wholesomeness of your meal. Some Americans feel the need to tip based on the heavy indoctrination in the US and are seen as suckers here in Europe when they tip. Here is an example of the problem: My son worked as a server at a restaurant while going to college. His wage was $5.50 an hour and he was charged for one meal at roughly $10 a day so his daily net after taxes was $19. He also is subjected to mandatory IRS deduction of $25 an hour for his taxes at the end of the year whether he received any tips or not. In a sense he was working for tips only so his employer was actually the customers and not the restaurant. He gave a lot of free drink refills and other niceties which were good for the customer and not the restaurant and got better tips because of that. What we have permitted to occur in America is shifting the salary costs to the customers and not to the restaurant owners. This is of course ridiculous yet this is what has happened in America. Worse, most restaurant employees receive no benefits at all. When I am in the US I tip 10%. I was a 3rd Chef (side dishes, vegetables, salads, soups, mayonnaise, dressings, and sauces) while going to college myself and earned $1.35 an hour and has the same stupid automatic food deduction and received no tips whatsoever. The entire food industry in the US is based on nearly slave labor conditions. and should be vilified as such. Many people work as servers at places that people don't tip at yet get the same crappy pay. Food service and farm labor are separate under the labor laws and have much lower minimum wages and benefits. It is time this changed and only Congress has the power to do that.

Whether customers pay tips or whether wages are increased, the wage costs are paid by the customers either way. If wages stay low and customers pay tips, the food price stays lower. If the owners are forced to pay increased wages, than food prices go up. Don't think for a second that if tips were to suddenly go away and wages were suddenly increased to compensate that menu prices would stay static. They absolutely 100% would, and you'd pay the same amount. Well, YOU wouldn't, since you tip below average in the US at only 10%. In fact, your cost would go up, since the average and expected tip is 15-20%, meal costs would also go up roughly 15-20%.

[tmm99]

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Originally Posted by RunningBum The only time I remember is when I ordered a sandwich or a burger, and either specifically asked for certain condiments only, or specifically said no mustard. It had mustard on it. I told the waitress that I didn't want mustard. She gave me an annoyed look, took the bread with the mustard on it, and scraped it off on the edge of my plate, and put it back on my sandwich. Actually, I did leave a tip, a penny, in the mustard. I wanted to make sure she knew I didn't just forget to leave one.

Wow! I probably would have talked to the manager for that.

[tmm99]

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Originally Posted by prudent_one Never a zero tip but twice left very small tips hoping to send a message that could not be interpreted as "Oh, I guess they forgot to leave a tip." Once in a diner where the server was playing grab-ass (as my father would call it - it means flirting instead of working) with another server leading to terrible service. The other time was at a nice downtown restaurant where I think the server felt we were underdressed and undercultured and therefore not worthy of occupying a table. He had a snide tone to everything he said, was patronizing when my wife asked what was in a particular dish, and clearly tried to rush us through our meal - and we are not leisurely eaters, so when I say we were rushed, it was beyond obvious. My approach is when the check arrives, I stop the server and say "Before I sign off on the check, I wanted to ask you if you felt you provided us good service." Boy does that raise eyebrows and cause stuttering. I could tell from the reaction in both cases they knew it was crap. The diner server simply said "I'm sorry." I appreciated the honesty and left 5%. The other guy dodged the question and said "I'll be glad to bring the manager over if you would like" which I accepted, then explained what our experience was. Have to say the manager didn't seem shocked at what I said and comped half our check. I tipped $1. I've had plenty of sub-par servers but only those two made me drop below 15%. I know it can be a tough job.

Interesting way of communicating with them. Great job!

[Music Lover]

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Originally Posted by dirtbiker Whether customers pay tips or whether wages are increased, the wage costs are paid by the customers either way. If wages stay low and customers pay tips, the food price stays lower. If the owners are forced to pay increased wages, than food prices go up. Don't think for a second that if tips were to suddenly go away and wages were suddenly increased to compensate that menu prices would stay static. They absolutely 100% would, and you'd pay the same amount. Well, YOU wouldn't, since you tip below average in the US at only 10%. In fact, your cost would go up, since the average and expected tip is 15-20%, meal costs would also go up roughly 15-20%.

Wages only constitute a portion of a restaurant's expenses so increasing that one expense 15%-20% will not result in a 15%-20% increase in their bottom line because the food costs, infrastructure, utilities, insurance, the wages of other non-tipping staff, and all the other expenses won't change.

[Filetmerlot]

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Originally Posted by jimnjana the server came to our table with one bowel of soup .

I hope it was at least a clean bowel they served the soup in. Otherwise that's just gross.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

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Originally Posted by Filetmerlot I hope it was at least a clean bowel they served the soup in. Otherwise that's just gross.

Ugh. That joke was the worst sort of tripe.

[Music Lover]

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Originally Posted by Filetmerlot I hope it was at least a clean bowel they served the soup in. Otherwise that's just gross.

I don't care how clean a bowel is...I'm never eating out of one

[Nemo2]

Since we don't eat out, I'd have to answer 'daily'.

[dirtbiker]

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Originally Posted by Music Lover Wages only constitute a portion of a restaurant's expenses so increasing that one expense 15%-20% will not result in a 15%-20% increase in their bottom line because the food costs, infrastructure, utilities, insurance, the wages of other non-tipping staff, and all the other expenses won't change.

Who said anything about a percent change in the bottom line? I didn't say it would decrease their bottom line by 15-20%. It wouldn't. If they needed to increase their bottom line by 15-20%, the menu prices would likely increase by multiples.

However, if making the assumption that when getting rid of the tipping system servers would be paid roughly the same as they make currently with the tipping system in place, that price would have to be made up in menu prices, by laying off workers, otherwise decreasing operating costs, or decreasing the owner's profit margins (which are already thin in the restaurant business). If they lay off workers, food prices may not be affected, but service will, so you'll pay the price of worse service. If the service is bad, the restaurant will lose business, and either close or hire more people again. If they can decrease other operating costs without affecting the dining experience, I would question why they didn't already do this. If the changes negatively affect the dining experience, they will likely lose customers, and this will decrease income, which will negate the decrease in operating costs. The last option of decreasing owners' profit margins will put many places out of business, as the margins are already razor thin in this business. IMO, the only logical choice is to increase food and drink prices.

The increased wages would be proportional to the amount the servers used to receive in tips. Because tipping in the US is based off of a percentage of the total cost of food and drinks, it's only logical that those items' cost would increase in a proportional amount.

How else would a restaurant owner cover the increased payroll?


And by the way, I'm not arguing against abolishing tipping in the US. I'd love to see all prices include taxes and not have to worry about tipping. I would end up paying less since I generally tip better than average, and it would be easier and quicker to estimate my bill.

[Music Lover]

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Originally Posted by dirtbiker Who said anything about a percent change in the bottom line? I didn't say it would decrease their bottom line by 15-20%. It wouldn't. If they needed to increase their bottom line by 15-20%, the menu prices would likely increase by multiples. However, if making the assumption that when getting rid of the tipping system servers would be paid roughly the same as they make currently with the tipping system in place, that price would have to be made up in menu prices, by laying off workers, otherwise decreasing operating costs, or decreasing the owner's profit margins (which are already thin in the restaurant business). If they lay off workers, food prices may not be affected, but service will, so you'll pay the price of worse service. If the service is bad, the restaurant will lose business, and either close or hire more people again. If they can decrease other operating costs without affecting the dining experience, I would question why they didn't already do this. If the changes negatively affect the dining experience, they will likely lose customers, and this will decrease income, which will negate the decrease in operating costs. The last option of decreasing owners' profit margins will put many places out of business, as the margins are already razor thin in this business. IMO, the only logical choice is to increase food and drink prices. The increased wages would be proportional to the amount the servers used to receive in tips. Because tipping in the US is based off of a percentage of the total cost of food and drinks, it's only logical that those items' cost would increase in a proportional amount. How else would a restaurant owner cover the increased payroll? And by the way, I'm not arguing against abolishing tipping in the US. I'd love to see all prices include taxes and not have to worry about tipping. I would end up paying less since I generally tip better than average, and it would be easier and quicker to estimate my bill.

Restaurants wouldn't have to replace all the tips as wages...and they wouldn't. They would just pay them minimum or at least similar wage to other workers. And just like any other business, they would adapt and the ones that can't adapt will go out of business.

So yes prices would go up. The only people who wouldn't like the new way of doing things would be people who used to get tips and the people that didn't tip previously.

[Montecfo]

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Originally Posted by SnowballCamper I hate tipping. Only when service is extraordinary to I give more than 10%. https://www.google.com/amp/s/talking...unethical/amp/

That's link seemed rather extreme. I do not see the "ethical" issue, nor do I hold myself responsible for making sure a server collects a "living wage". You get what you earn. If that is not enough, find another job.

And tipping is based on tradition and personal service, not prevailing wages or ethics.

[Montecfo]

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Originally Posted by OldShooter Once in a great while I will leave a penny or a quarter if we get really poor service. Probably not even once a year. In our market we are starting to see restaurants where you order and pay at a counter like a fast food joint. But when they give you the tablet computer to sign, there is the opportunity to add a tip (0/15/20/25%). I always select zero. At that point I have received no service at all, so I am not going to pay for it. If a server delivers the food and is unusually helpful I may leave some cash on the table. But that's it. (I generally avoid these counter-service "restaurants." If I want counter service I will go to a fast food joint.) Well, .... not always. I have a SCORE mentoring client who has a restaurant accounting/financial consulting business. She tells us that even at mid-grade restaurants it is not uncommon for the servers to make $60K for a 30 hour week. They often make more than the restaurant manager. My client's hot button is the kitchen staff which is making minimum wage. Her ideal is abolition of tipping entirely in favor of either higher food prices or a standard service charge that is used to add to everyone's pay and possibly to add health insurance to benefits. That is a very difficult paradigm shift, however. If you are sitting at a restaurant, you can do a rough estimate of a server's tips by counting the tables he/she is handling and guessing at average ticket size and at the number of times the tables turn during his/her shift. I think you will get a number that is much higher than minimum wage.

This was my experience many years ago waiting tables. People that hustled and were service oriented made very good money.

[Nemo2]

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Originally Posted by OldShooter ....even at mid-grade restaurants it is not uncommon for the servers to make $60K for a 30 hour week.

I can see that.....50+ years ago one of the guys I shared a place with was a waiter in a high end Toronto steakhouse.

He tossed any loose coins he ended up with into a large olive can in his room; one Sunday he & I were home, nothing going on, so he hauled it out, poured it onto the floor, and we started counting.

As I recall, we hit $500* before the phone rang with a 'party alert'....poured it back into the can and went out.

(*$100 a week was perhaps an average wage at that time, and most of his tips were in notes.)

[Sunset]

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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger However, as I said earlier, in practice employers may penalize wait staff if they are asked to supplement the wage in this manner. It was made clear to me in no uncertain terms at a few different restaurants that no one should ever ask for a tip credit or they would be fired. I'm sure this was not limited just to New Jersey in the late 80s-early 90s.

I understand that there are some restaurant owners or managers that would do that illegal activity. Opening themselves up for a lawsuit for damages and possible criminal penalties for failing to pay minimum wage.
All it would take would be a few previous workers with documentation, and a hungry lawyer.

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/na...bor-violations

https://waiterpay.com/blog/best-rest...ropriated-tips

Of course if nobody collects the proof, and exposes the practice it often continues.