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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-30-2005, 05:35 PM   #41
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

We should have focused on Afghanistan militarily, and used our technological superiority to root out terrorists elsewhere by intercepting their communications, and tracing the money. Iraq was not a big fish, and has been/is a very expensive diversion from the "core" mission.

I hope that the situation in Iraq works out in the end, though I'm pessimistic. Bush, as commander-in-chief, cannot afford to bail at every sign of trouble, but we need a better strategy for finding and stopping the insurgents, and getting the country back to something that passes for normal. If we can't/don't do that, then we will have failed.

What will be interesting is what happens if the Palestinian/Israeli situation is resolved. The excuse du jour since 1948.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-30-2005, 05:45 PM   #42
 
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

I type this on Memorial Day. We remember necessary wars and sacrificed lives on this day as opposed to the totally stupid conflict that we are involved in today.

Well no one now, or in the future should ever doubt that this was Bush Jr.'s war (Iraq).

This war will go down as one of the biggest disasters of the U.S. - It's too bad that Bush Jr. Dodged the draft in the late 60's. With a little experience under his belt, he would have spared over a thousand Amercian lives and countless wounded. Not to mention Billions of dollars and the fall of American currency.

Yes, he is a buffoon. And the 50% of Americans that voted for him, will beg to be forgiven by the year 2010.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-30-2005, 06:13 PM   #43
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Back to topic, in 1965 I invested heavily in Western Auto bicycle parts: banana seat with sissy bar, hi-rise handle bars, racing slick...

A lot of lawn mowing dollars went into that old Schwinn.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-30-2005, 06:14 PM   #44
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
I type this on Memorial Day. We remember necessary wars and sacrificed lives on this day as opposed to the totally stupid conflict that we are involved in today.

Well no one now, or in the future should ever doubt that this was Bush Jr.'s war (Iraq).

This war will go down as one of the biggest disasters of the U.S. - It's too bad that Bush Jr. Dodged the draft in the late 60's. With a little experience under his belt, he would have spared over a thousand Amercian lives and countless wounded. Not to mention Billions of dollars and the fall of American currency.

Yes, he is a buffoon. And the 50% of Americans that voted for him, will beg to be forgiven by the year 2010.
Lighten up man! * If Bush wasn't in there someone else would be screwing it up.

JG
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-30-2005, 06:19 PM   #45
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

You got that right.............
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-30-2005, 10:30 PM   #46
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

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Originally Posted by Have Funds, Will Retire
We should have focused on Afghanistan militarily, and used our technological superiority to root out terrorists elsewhere by intercepting their communications, and tracing the money.
Speaking as a submariner, what the ^&#*! do you think we've been doing for the last 15 years?

TH, I happen to agree with you that the liberators can and do quickly turn into the oppressors. But I thought the Stanford Study had been generally discredited, as has its money-grubbing head researcher.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-30-2005, 10:39 PM   #47
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

My work (defense contractor) sponsored a company of Marines (you know, care packages etc.) in Iraq, and recently they came home and visited our place of business. I happened to be near the podium (to make sure there were no technical glitches) and I overheard our HR director say how he was going to open with a big thank you etc. The CC said, "yeah, we're going to want to skip right over that, o.k.?" the director, confused, complied.

Later on I was speaking with two Marines about why the CC would say that. They replied, "If you saw what we had to do over there, you wouldn't be cheering and thanking us, either." They said it was very discordent, going through hell over there with no clear end game and then coming back here with everyone rah-rah-ing and waving the flag around.

So now I try to talk to the servicemen and women I meet about sports, weather, the Jackson trial, anything but the war. They've got enough on them as it is to then have to come back here and live up to our expectations as superheroes.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 01:06 AM   #48
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

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They replied, "If you saw what we had to do over there, you wouldn't be cheering and thanking us, either."* They said it was very discordent, going through hell over there with no clear end game and then coming back here with everyone rah-rah-ing and waving the flag around.*
Bummer. My nephew enlisted in the Rangers, did two tours in Afghanistan and a behind-the-lines gig in Iraq (a couple months before the war started), and he's happy to hear people tell him thanks.

But he's even happier at West Point.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 06:03 AM   #49
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
My work (defense contractor) sponsored a company of Marines (you know, care packages etc.) in Iraq, and recently they came home and visited our place of business.* I happened to be near the podium (to make sure there were no technical glitches) and I overheard our HR director say how he was going to open with a big thank you etc.* The CC said, "yeah, we're going to want to skip right over that, o.k.?" the director, confused, complied.*

Later on I was speaking with two Marines about why the CC would say that.* They replied, "If you saw what we had to do over there, you wouldn't be cheering and thanking us, either."* They said it was very discordent, going through hell over there with no clear end game and then coming back here with everyone rah-rah-ing and waving the flag around.*

So now I try to talk to the servicemen and women I meet about sports, weather, the Jackson trial, anything but the war.* They've got enough on them as it is to then have to come back here and live up to our expectations as superheroes.* *
I love to listen to my buddies Viet Nam stories. Trouble is not one of them seems at all
interested in discussing it. I am quite sure I would never stop talking and writing about it had I served. But, anyone coming up on 5000 posts here is obviously
naturally loquacious.

JG
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 08:18 AM   #50
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

I suspect the intensity of personal experience - makes it difficult to communicate. My late Father would tell tales of Shore Patrol in New Orleans BUT not Kamikazee's in the South Pacific,- one of my doughnut shop buddies(three tours) will talk Germany BUT not details of being one of 17 left out out of his company, - nor is it worthwhile to probe why one of my in laws spent last Thanksgiving away from family at Arlington last year(more than one ceremony).

Grateful to be a civilian and grateful for their service. As for the two still in - may their take offs equal their landings.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 10:20 AM   #51
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Welcome back ex-Jarhead

What'd ya think of the 'new' forum?
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 10:27 AM   #52
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...2c7ef576a.html
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 12:36 PM   #53
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
TH, I happen to agree with you that the liberators can and do quickly turn into the oppressors. But I thought the Stanford Study had been generally discredited, as has its money-grubbing head researcher.
Nords...hadnt heard any specific discrediting...got a link I can read something at? Although it wouldnt surprise me...I havent seen any significant lightning-rod story that wasnt accredited and discredited repeatedly. In fact, the studies that generate the most bilateral disagreement are usually the most interesting.

I think the point is that people will assume the roles they're given. Once in those roles they often display base tendencies that are suppressed in their normal "role". Besides the stanford experiment, there have been a lot of similar 'tests', both short and simple and long and complex. At the end of the day they appear to almost universally come up with the same result: we're all at least a little bit sadistic.

I hate to be on topic, but in 1965 I wanted a bike...I think it was a Schwinn, called "The Screamer". Theres a joke in there about this setting a precedent for a pattern that would continue into adulthood, but I digress. The screamer cost, if memory serves, about $65. Pretty spendy for a bike in those days. My parents both instructed me patiently in the idealogies of saving my allowance and chore money towards purchasing it. They might as well have been explaining nuclear physics to me. I just wanted the dang bike and waiting a year for it was just unacceptable. Later that year after saving about half, they got tired of my simpering and chipped in the other half. As it turned out, I didnt even like riding the bike as much as my old one. Second lesson learned.

By the way, a $20k salary in 1965 is equal to about $122K in 2005 salary.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 12:50 PM   #54
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Welcome back, Jarhead, we've been looking for you!

Kindly update your e-mail address with Dory... your current one bounced.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 12:52 PM   #55
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Yep, we already sent the dogs looking for you, and I was only a few hours away from calling the President to let him know you were missing and we needed to raise the terror alert one color notch

Welcome back, hope you've had an enjoyable time away.
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 01:07 PM   #56
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Banks
Nords...hadnt heard any specific discrediting...got a link I can read something at?*
Yeah, the study itself.

His fellow psychologists feel that Zimbardo's behavior was increasingly unprofessional as he seemingly let himself be converted from a dispassionate observer to an emotional participant, as in this quote:* "How do you think we reacted to this rumor? Do you think we recorded the pattern of rumor transmission and prepared to observe the impending escape? That was what we should have done, of course, if we were acting like experimental social psychologists. Instead, we reacted with concern over the security of our prison. What we did was to hold a strategy session with the Warden, the Superintendent, and one of the chief lieutenants, Craig Haney, to plan how to foil the escape."

The web site has been updated to refer Abu Ghraib, something that wouldn't seem necessary if the study had stood on its own merits since 1971.* It might just be cynicism that makes me suspicious of the breathless suspense and lurid language, or else it's the DVD on sale for $100 with accompanying "curriculum"...*
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 02:23 PM   #57
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

If you dont get the new 'handle', do a google search on 'grand banks dory'...that should explain it.

When the new forum software was installed, we became google-able for the first time, so I changed my name to "You Dont Know Me". Later when discussing a local boat of interest with Dory the new name came up and I liked it, so it stuck.

For about 5 more minutes, most likely...
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 05:35 PM   #58
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Quote:
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I felt a little bit like the kid that comes back from school, and finds that his parents have moved and left no forwarding address.
My parents moved a lot when I was a kid, too, but I always managed to find them!

(Ba-dump-bump, *clang*)
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 08:00 PM   #59
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

Thank you, I'll be here all week! ("why")

Try the veal!
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?
Old 05-31-2005, 09:17 PM   #60
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Re: How Would You Have Done In 1965?

That reminds me of when my dad taught me how to swim. Once I got out of the bag, the half mile swim back to shore was made easy by the prodding I got from the large sharks...
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