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Old 06-30-2015, 11:26 PM   #21
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One can commit a crime or an infraction, and still be not guilty. By reason of insanity, anyone? Or you can say you are just temporarily absentminded. You can tell the truth hoping to get off on extenuating circumstances. That's not perjury....
You're very close to what I said: I said that I didn't remember not stopping, I knew the stop sign was there, because it's there every day that I roll through it (I really didn't say that last part) and that I can't picture myself not completely stopping at a stop sign. The judge said "not guilty" and wished me a good day and that I should remember to drive safely.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:29 PM   #22
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I would have pled not guilty and not given an explanation....

There is no reason to give one...
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Old 07-01-2015, 12:13 AM   #23
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Lots of reasons. One day I'm going to a friend's place. 9:00 AM Sun. morning in an industrial area. No traffic. Glare ice, I don't quite come to a stop at the stop sign. Might not get going again if I fully stop. Get pulled over and a $300 ticket. Am I guilty? Probably. Seemed wrong.

Looked at the ticket (later). Said it was issued by RCMP rather than our local police force, while I didn't check ID, I know the RCMP have better things to do than issue tickets in a place with another police force.

Plead not guilty, here that means a trial. Cop said his piece about how I dove thru the stop sign at at least 2 mph. Asked him when he joined the RCMP. It got interesting and I saved about $300. $50, I might have paid.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:00 AM   #24
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I would have plead not guilty.

I would also be disgusted with the judge and the participants making a game and a joke of the court. The legal system is enough of a disgrace when everyone is trying to do things the right way.

This is an example of a common situation where the judge holds himself above the law and confuses it with his own whims.
It is contemptible.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:40 AM   #25
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I can't imagine why anyone who plans to plea guilty would go to court in the first place - pay by mail. You go to court to plea not guilty. Doesn't matter whether you did it or not - maybe the citing officer won't show up, maybe your explanation for slow rolling seems reasonable...
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:55 AM   #26
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I would have plead not guilty.

I would also be disgusted with the judge and the [court personnel] making a game and a joke of the court. The legal system is enough of a disgrace when everyone is trying to do things the right way.

This is an example of a common situation where the judge holds himself above the law and confuses it with his own whims.
It is contemptible.
Second this--particularly with traffic court, which is typically a joke to begin with. In most cases it is there to raise revenue, as opposed to making the roads safer--and in many/most jurisdictions, there is a way to get around it for those in the know, or willing to buy their way out of points....
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:55 AM   #27
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Pleading not guilty is not the lie. It's the reason you give that could be the lie. So, the question remains: is it morally (?) justified to lie in court if the judge is encouraging it? Does it brush up against your own personal code of ethics?
Of course not. Not guilty, never have been guilty, never could be guilty. It must have been someone else sister.

Ha
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:13 AM   #28
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We'll go to court, plead guilty and ask a 4 hour driver's school is an option. If the school is completed, they'll not put the violation on the driver's DMV report.


It's often cheaper in the long run than increases in insurance rates.
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:52 AM   #29
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I can't imagine why anyone who plans to plea guilty would go to court in the first place - pay by mail. You go to court to plea not guilty. Doesn't matter whether you did it or not - maybe the citing officer won't show up, maybe your explanation for slow rolling seems reasonable...
Exactly!

One other reason to go, besides the cop not showing up, is to ask for a PFJC (no plea needs to be entered, and the case remains pending for 2 years). The case is dropped unless and until you get another traffic citation within 2 years. That scheme usually requires going to drivers school, though. But having the case dropped after two years of being clean is worth a try, if you can get it.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:00 AM   #30
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My situation re: the ticket happened about 45 years ago. I don't recall if back then you had to show up at court if you received a ticket regardless of how you were going to plead. I'm don't recall if driving school was an option back then. I do remember feeling guilt about my plea of not guilty, but that's what the court wanted me (and all the other defendants) to plead that day. So, setting aside my moral code (which I didn't even know existed) regarding the court system, I pleaded, "Not guilty, your honor. I don't remember not stopping at that stop sign."
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:23 AM   #31
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"I do not remember". Politicians say that all the time. Yet, they may truly do not remember.

But never, ever say "It depends on what the definition of stop is".
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:43 AM   #32
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Just yesterday I was pulled over while doing 65 in a 70 zone. We were in the slow lane with cars passing us. The officer said his radar had me at 82! Auto was on cruise control, I was going 65, officer was going in the opposite direction on a four lane divided highway. He essentially said his radar popped and he picked us out as speeding. Both DW and I said 'No Way'! I told him I just don't speed, especially on that strip of HWY. Truthfully I don't speed, unless passing someone on a two lane road. We are just not in a hurry to get anywhere!

I think he saw our total shock at what he said, realized he picked the wrong car, and let us go with a verbal warning, but he did not back down. Just said his radar was more accurate than our cruise control. Yet, I sure know the difference between 65 and 82! However, I am sure if we went to court we would have lost.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:50 AM   #33
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I hate it when cops lie.

One time, I was on a highway doing exactly the limit at 65mph. I passed by two patrol cars parked in the median. I believe they were doing some surveillance to catch something. I was surprised when one pulled out and went after me.

When the cop got out of his car and walked up to my car, I overheard him saying to his buddy on his walkie-talkie "Negative". Obviously, I was not whoever they were looking for.

He went through the motion to see my driver's license and stuff, as he already stopped me. He said the reason was that I was speeding. When I protested, he immediately said "Well, my radar gun must not be working right today", and let me go.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:51 AM   #34
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I would have caught on and plead not guilty. However, most times I go to court is to get assigned traffic school. Overall, best to not need to go to traffic court in the first place. I usually keep within 10 over now and just cruise with the high speed traffic flow. Going faster than 10 over or the prevailing flow is what attracts the attention. Most all traffic tickets are now revenue generation, have nothing to do with safety.

I got my doctorate in traffic school before I graduated college.........
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:14 PM   #35
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You are not lying to the judge... you're just pleading not guilty... you are not testifying that you didn't do it... it is the prosecution's job to prove that you did do it and you can't be compelled to testify against yourself.
+1

Innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the state (county, town, village). The ticket is NOT evidence.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:22 PM   #36
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You always have the option of saying "I failed to come to a complete stop and am pleading not guilty." No lie there...
What he said.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:31 PM   #37
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A little over 35 years ago I got a ticket for a rolling stop violation. I just sent in the money for the fine...did not appear in court.
I was in my early twenties. I was driving and DH was a passenger. It was after dark in a residential area. The police who stopped me said he didn't have time to write a ticket and to follow him. I followed him about half a mile to a newer section of the residential area. About a third of the lots were occupied in this area and the rest vacant or under construction. He checked one of the empty houses and then came back and wrote the ticket.
At the time and even to this day, I felt his actions were not warranted. Either write the ticket or let me go. I never contacted the authorities about this, but requiring me to follow him to another area for a minor traffic violation seemed out of line. Curious if any retired police officers are reading this thread and have anything to say.


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Old 07-01-2015, 03:38 PM   #38
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It sounds like this was an arraignment where you would just enter a plea. Following that plea a trial or hearing would be set where the officer would then introduce evidence to support the infraction. You would not be called upon to testify until after the officer's testimony. I would enter a plea of not guilty. In many cases the officer fails to appear in court and the case is dismissed. In your situation, however, it sounds like the case would have just been dismissed by the judge.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:50 PM   #39
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A little over 35 years ago I got a ticket for a rolling stop violation. I just sent in the money for the fine...did not appear in court.
I was in my early twenties. I was driving and DH was a passenger. It was after dark in a residential area. The police who stopped me said he didn't have time to write a ticket and to follow him. I followed him about half a mile to a newer section of the residential area. About a third of the lots were occupied in this area and the rest vacant or under construction. He checked one of the empty houses and then came back and wrote the ticket.
At the time and even to this day, I felt his actions were not warranted. Either write the ticket or let me go. I never contacted the authorities about this, but requiring me to follow him to another area for a minor traffic violation seemed out of line. Curious if any retired police officers are reading this thread and have anything to say.


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That would be me. Yes, his actions are unwarranted. Let me think of some other adjectives: ridiculous, stupid, uncalled for, BS.

I can think of several times where I pulled someone over and then something else more important came up (stolen car drove right by me being chased by another officer, officer yelled for help on the radio, a wreck occurred right in front of me). Each time I told the person it was his lucky day and sent him on his way.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:51 PM   #40
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Curious if any retired police officers are reading this thread and have anything to say.
I'm one. I cannot think of any good reason for any officer to do something like that. It would have been entirely appropriate for you to contact his supervisor to ask why he would do that.
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