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Old 08-04-2015, 10:34 PM   #41
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Ahh, more integration. The last thing I want is for my heater and AC to stop working because the car's nav system blows a capacitor. I want >less< integration, and less electronics and complexity where it adds little/no value. Knob-->push/pull cable-->mixer door. No servos, sensors, vacuum lines and actuators, etc.
+1. I'm a firm believer that technology should either simplify or enrich my life. If it doesn't clearly do either, then it's at best clutter.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:36 PM   #42
Recycles dryer sheets
 
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Problem is that the mechanical can break also...

We had a Ford Explorer.... bad car... many problems.... but we are talking HVAC...

So, the AC did not seem to work as well as I would have liked... took it in to make sure the system was full of whatever refrigerant it had... they said yes... but, there was a door behind the dash that had an actuator arm made of plastic... and it broke... the replacement was metal... but it would cost $1200 to take everything out and put everything back in order to replace a $1 item....

There was also a 'rear' AC system... (I only think it was vents, but it did cost money)... well, it had mechanical doors that would open... but someone the screw got messed up and all you would hear is it clicking... it never would stop unless you moved the temp up higher... IIRC, that was going to be an $800 fix...


All systems can have flaws if designed poorly.... or with poor materials...
We had a ford explorer with only 1 major problem. The actuator arm on ours broke too. Googled the problem and removed the glove box and drilled a small hole in the actuator arm and cable tied it to the vent door. Fixed the problem and it is still working.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:45 PM   #43
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If the source of energy for a bicyclist is filet mignon, then I can believe it. But if he eats cheap carb like rice or potato, it will cost peanuts (which also has lots of calories).
The issue wasn't direct cost, it was environmental impact, probably some measure of the CO2 released in growing the crop, water, fertilizer, etc.

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Old 08-04-2015, 11:31 PM   #44
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We had a ford explorer with only 1 major problem. The actuator arm on ours broke too. Googled the problem and removed the glove box and drilled a small hole in the actuator arm and cable tied it to the vent door. Fixed the problem and it is still working.

According to the repair shop, you could either have heat or AC but not both if you tied it up... what is your experience?

Do not have it anymore, just curious....
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:54 PM   #45
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According to the repair shop, you could either have heat or AC but not both if you tied it up... what is your experience?

Do not have it anymore, just curious....
Tied it to the broken part so it worked as normal.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:14 AM   #46
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Tied it to the broken part so it worked as normal.
A "tinkerer" can fix most mechanical issues - even if the solution isn't particularly elegant. Saw a couple of shows from Cuba indicating how folks down there keep their 1950s cars going way longer than we keep our 90s cars. Imagine if all those 50's cars had engine computers. For the most part computers in cars either work or they don't. There's no fixing them - only replacing. YMMV
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:53 AM   #47
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Thought provoking thread. There are more junk articles on hybrid car total environmental impact, but this one seems more credible though still not quantitative. http://www.pitt.edu/~crf30/Writing3.pdf

If battery production is relatively bad for the environment, should make us all think about all our battery powered devices, many more today than generations past (mobile devices, laptops, cars, etc.)
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:17 AM   #48
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Our 2006 (2G) Prius just went past 150K miles. It's a very nice car and we get 45-50 mpg without any special driving techniques. The only maintenance I've done other than oil changes is to replace the auxiliary battery and the HID headlights. We did have a warranty replacement of traction (HV) battery at the 99,500 mile mark. The dealership swapped out the battery pack (at no cost) and gave us a free rental while the battery was being replaced.

If you want to get reliably, comfortably and economically from point A to point B, it's a great choice. If you want excitement, not so good.
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:25 AM   #49
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Thought provoking thread. There are more junk articles on hybrid car total environmental impact, but this one seems more credible though still not quantitative. http://www.pitt.edu/~crf30/Writing3.pdf
Yes, that article brings up the issues, but doesn't go into the numbers much. And his claim that the battery must be bad since Toyota offers $200 for an old battery to assure they get recycled is rather specious. If the recycling process is good, then it just makes sense to assure they get recycled (like the $6 core charge we have in IL for lead-acid car batteries).

But there was this:

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... A study done by students at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute in 2010 found the break-even points of several vehicles. The Ford Fusion Hybrid would need to be driven for 150,000 miles exclusively in the city before it breaks even. However, if most of the driving were done on the highway, one would need to drive it approximately two million miles [5]. The Ford Escape Hybrid would need to be driven for 200,000 city miles before breaking even and one million highway miles [5].
Here's the ref, 88 pages, so I have not dug into it yet. But comparisons are complicated, since they will have different kinds of pollutants, it's not a clear apples-apples:

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Av...d_Cars_IQP.pdf


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If battery production is relatively bad for the environment, should make us all think about all our battery powered devices, many more today than generations past (mobile devices, laptops, cars, etc.)
Well, we ought to consider everything that affects the environment. But my laptop battery is ~ 0.040 kWh versus 1.300 kWh for a Prius (~32x), and 4.400 kWh for the Prius plug-in (~110x), and 24 kWh for a Leaf (600x). An iPhone is ~ 0.007 kWh, ~ 1/5th of a laptop battery, so multiply those factors by 5.

Scale is a factor. And while we can consider a standard ICE as an alternative to hybrids and EVs (and the hybrid may still win out overall, depending on these numbers), what is the alternative for people who need to carry a phone or laptop or GPS? I don't think it is meaningful to note that 32 laptops or 160 smart phones equal one Prius, unless there is an alternative.

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Old 08-05-2015, 08:37 AM   #50
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Considering they are selling over 40 million I-phones a quarter I think that they use more batteries than the hybrids....


But, I did not do the math...
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:45 AM   #51
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Considering they are selling over 40 million I-phones a quarter I think that they use more batteries than the hybrids....


But, I did not do the math...
But again, what is the alternative (assuming you need a smart phone)?

If (and that's a big if) the hybrid isn't an overall environmental positive compared to a conventional high mpg vehicle, then the environmental choice (assuming you need a vehicle) is the conventional vehicle.

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Old 08-05-2015, 10:30 AM   #52
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Saw a couple of shows from Cuba indicating how folks down there keep their 1950s cars going way longer than we keep our 90s cars.
I predict that USA car collectors will soon be flooding in to Cuba with fists full of cash to bring home these old beauties.

FWIW, Tesla claims that their cars have "No Vehicle Emissions". Closer to the truth.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:36 AM   #53
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I think that if one drives a lot, a hybrid will win, both in the financial sense as well as in environmental costs.

But as a retiree who drives so little, perhaps the best solution for me is to keep the clunkers that I have and drive them to the ground. Again, this makes sense both from a financial and environmental viewpoints. Cars are not exciting toys to me anyway.

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If the source of energy for a bicyclist is filet mignon, then I can believe it. But if he eats cheap carb like rice or potato, it will cost peanuts (which also has lots of calories).
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The issue wasn't direct cost, it was environmental impact, probably some measure of the CO2 released in growing the crop, water, fertilizer, etc.
That too. Raising a cow takes a lot of water and releases much methane. Going lower in the food chain would beat burning gasoline in the car in terms of spent resources.

But this is just for the sake of argument. I am not going to pedal a bike out in this 110F heat and risk a heatstroke. And we would all conserve natural resources better by raising our thermostat a degree or two in the summer, and lowering it in the winter. Or live in a smaller house.
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Old 09-22-2015, 03:44 PM   #54
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Here's a fellow who claims some of his Prius taxi vehicles get well over 200,000 miles before the batteries need swapping out.

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Two of the older examples have managed a lifespan of 350,000km (218,000mi) and 550,000km (341,000mi) before needing replacement of their nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) batteries.
Toyota Prius taxi tops 340,000mi, dispels battery myth
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:15 PM   #55
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Here's a fellow who claims some of his Prius taxi vehicles get well over 200,000 miles before the batteries need swapping out.



Toyota Prius taxi tops 340,000mi, dispels battery myth
Not surprised. There are a series of YouTube videos on tear downs of Escape hybrid taxis with similar mileage and similar findings. These batteries are pampered in operation both in terms of depth of discharge and temperature stabilization.
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Old 09-22-2015, 07:38 PM   #56
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Saw an article the other day that said you can purchase a Nissan Leaf, 2012 for $8,500! I would guess depending on battery replacement, that might make it economical.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:07 PM   #57
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Saw an article the other day that said you can purchase a Nissan Leaf, 2012 for $8,500! I would guess depending on battery replacement, that might make it economical.
I'd do some research on the used Leafs (leaves?). I was considering purchasing one as they come off lease here in Georgia (and there are a ton of them thanks to a recently expired tax credit from the state) but after reading up on some forums, I decided against it.

Sent from my mobile device so please excuse grammatical errors.
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:45 PM   #58
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I was thinking about a 2015 Prius Plug-in for the HOV sticker but the regular Prius has a significant discount and higher rebate. The price difference, about $4k is too much for the once a week benefit for the next 3 years in my mind. I'll hold off for now.
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