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Old 05-24-2015, 12:13 PM   #41
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My new 2015 Mazda 3 has an on/off switch for the traction control system on the dash.
So does my 2015 Toyota Sienna van.
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Old 05-24-2015, 12:20 PM   #42
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ABS and traction control are not unique to the Prius. Almost all cars have had ABS breaking systems for decades and traction control is now a required feature on U.S. sold cars. .............
I think you missed my point. Combining something as complex as regenerative braking with ABS has got to be extremely tricky. Regen braking is limiting wheel rotation via the axle shafts, where as ABS is limiting wheel rotation via selective application of the brakes. Coordinating that in a seamless manner is no small feat. Similarly coordinating the power of the electric and the gasoline engine to provide power just below the threshold of tire slippage is a similarly tricky task. It all relies on good sensors and computing power that is super dependable, plus glitch free programming.

To pull all of this off and have superior reliability to a non-hybrid is, to me, amazing.
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Old 05-24-2015, 12:30 PM   #43
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I think you missed my point. Combining something as complex as regenerative braking with ABS has got to be extremely tricky. Regen braking is limiting wheel rotation via the axle shafts, where as ABS is limiting wheel rotation via selective application of the brakes. Coordinating that in a seamless manner is no small feat. Similarly coordinating the power of the electric and the gasoline engine to provide power just below the threshold of tire slippage is a similarly tricky task. It all relies on good sensors and computing power that is super dependable, plus glitch free programming.

To pull all of this off and have superior reliability to a non-hybrid is, to me, amazing.
Computer chips can make thousands of calculations in a second, so I don't know why you would find this so amazing. Chips are simply programmed to perform certain functions when various inputs are received.
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Old 05-24-2015, 01:03 PM   #44
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I think you missed my point. Combining something as complex as regenerative braking with ABS has got to be extremely tricky. Regen braking is limiting wheel rotation via the axle shafts, where as ABS is limiting wheel rotation via selective application of the brakes. Coordinating that in a seamless manner is no small feat. Similarly coordinating the power of the electric and the gasoline engine to provide power just below the threshold of tire slippage is a similarly tricky task. It all relies on good sensors and computing power that is super dependable, plus glitch free programming.

To pull all of this off and have superior reliability to a non-hybrid is, to me, amazing.
I kind of did miss your point, but maybe because the technology you implied is not that ground breaking or hard to do since hybrids built by other manufacturers are doing the same, I would imagine.
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Old 05-24-2015, 01:59 PM   #45
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Computer chips can make thousands of calculations in a second, so I don't know why you would find this so amazing. Chips are simply programmed to perform certain functions when various inputs are received.
I think that you also missed my point.

The components added to a hybrid hugely increase the complexity of an already complex machine, as well as the opportunity for something to go wrong. So the fact that all this additional complexity is piled on and reliability remains high, is amazing to me, but then I'm a simple lad.
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:02 PM   #46
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I didn't buy a Prius to be smug, I bought it for the gas mileage. But, to be honest, when it's time for a new car, I will go for something else. I find I do need more room and I really don't drive that much anyway, less than 4,000 miles a year.

As for driving on the freeway, I am going faster than most be people and get on the freeway just fine.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:36 PM   #47
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Haven't you heard of green smugness??
not really

is that the "in" thing now? get a small, poorly performing car because it emits nicely and/or is high mpg?

We only drive about 8k miles a year so we don't use that much fuel. AWD avoids the sniff test.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:33 PM   #48
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not really



is that the "in" thing now? get a small, poorly performing car because it emits nicely and/or is high mpg?



We only drive about 8k miles a year so we don't use that much fuel. AWD avoids the sniff test.

Well, it is small, but it performs the task for which it was designed just fine.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:58 PM   #49
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I had a Saturn SUV crossover which I loved. Started feeling guilty about my environmental footprint and so got the Prius. As I said, I don't drive that much. My footprint was probably minimal with the Saturn (every comfort!) but I didn't do my research. Got the Prius with an upside down loan and now I'm screwed.
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:35 PM   #50
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Car loan ... what's that?
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:57 PM   #51
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I had a Saturn SUV crossover which I loved. Started feeling guilty about my environmental footprint and so got the Prius. As I said, I don't drive that much. ....
A friend related a similar story to me a few years back about her husband's car trade (but the other car was a gas hog, big old Caddy/Buick?). I love noting counter-intuitive things and cognitive-dissonance, so I said to her:
Now, he doesn't drive many miles, so what if the person he sold the old gas hog to drives a lot? Won't that mean that overall, more gasoline will be used and burnt up now that bought the Prius?
I got a scrunched up look while she contemplated this, so I just changed the subject and poured another drink. OK, I get my kicks in weird ways!


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Old 05-24-2015, 06:05 PM   #52
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I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid on the last day of 2007. With the $1500 federal tax credit and waiver of the 6% state sales tax (about $1200 worth), the price was the same as a conventionally fueled Civic. Average mpg for the Hybrid is 47. I have 193k miles on it now, so I have used 4106 gallons of gas. The conventional Civic, at 38 mpg, would have used 5079 gallons, so I've saved 973 gallons of gas. Fuel prices in CT are high. Eyeballing this chart Historical Gas Price Charts - Connecticut Gas Prices, I would estimate the average fuel cost over that time to be $3.31 per gallon, giving me fuel savings of $3220. However, I recently had to replace the hybrid battery at a cost of $2400, meaning I've saved only $820 over 7.5 years. I am hoping to drive it another 100k miles in the next four years, which should bring me further fuel savings of approximately $1670. So, say $2500 in total savings over 11.5 years. It is indeed money in my pocket, but it's not a large number, and not even as much as the original tax subsidies. After this one is done, I don't think I'll get another hybrid, especially given that I will not be commuting 100 miles a day anymore.
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Old 05-24-2015, 06:11 PM   #53
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Oh please don't rub it in!!!!! I'm kicking myself every day!
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Old 05-25-2015, 06:02 PM   #54
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that's a strange reason to purchase a vehicle
Prius is the thinking person's Cadillac.
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:40 AM   #55
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Prius is the thinking person's Cadillac.
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:45 AM   #56
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It is indeed money in my pocket, but it's not a large number, and not even as much as the original tax subsidies. After this one is done, I don't think I'll get another hybrid, especially given that I will not be commuting 100 miles a day anymore.
that's what I call the "myth" of the mpg obsession

how much money do you really save on fuel in a cramped, small car?

let's say you drive 10000 miles a year (I drive about half that but 10K seems average)

you have a nice turbo crossover/suv that gets 20 MPG (my wife's Subaru, for example)

so that would be 10000/20*3.5 per year in fuel $1,750.00

If you "upgraded" to a 30 mpg vehicle, you'd save 1/3rd of that or $583 per year in fuel. That's less than $50 a month. Not worth it IMO.
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:56 AM   #57
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I thought about a Prius at one time (a while ago), but then I realized I drive 25,000 miles per year and in the greater Houston area and outside of that.

I wanted a vehicle that had good physical size, lots of storage and comfort, great mileage, and lots of power (torque).......so I bought a VW Passat diesel. Has all of the above and I can set the cruise at 75 MPH (speed limit) and still get 45 miles per gallon (with no batteries).
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:57 AM   #58
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^^ yeah those are nice vehicles


I'll start a "proven power bragging" car thread when I get my dyno tune done tomorrow...
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:53 PM   #59
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Car loan ... what's that?
That's something the "little people " do.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:02 PM   #60
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That's something the "little people " do.
What was someone saying about 'smugness'?

Sometimes they offer really attractive rates. People of means (not 'little people') may decide that's a reasonable shot at arbitraging against investments.

I know someone who qualified for an additional $600 discount (or maybe $1000?), dependent on taking out a loan. Paid the loan in fill after the first payment. Hmmm, $600 for a few $ for one month's interest? Sounds smart to me.

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