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Old 03-11-2010, 04:47 PM   #21
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No, no bird hunters but I did have an aunt who netted butterflies.

I have to laugh because, as a Los Angeles resident, the words "public place" instantly registers as a building or parking lot, and now I see what you mean. We don't have a lot of flora and fauna here.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:10 PM   #22
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I think they are trying to desensitize the "public." Most see a gun and think negative. They think DANGER. Plenty of people carry knives, which are far more dangerous (I think knives kill more people than guns, but not sure). But people have been conditioned to react negatively to guns for some reason.
A gun is just a thing. Just like a knife. Its the INTENT that matters, not the tool.
Not too long ago in my state (NH) we used to see hunters all the time walking and carrying their guns. Fewer and fewer people now hunt, and fewer and fewer are exposed to guns. I would expect someone to call 911 if they saw a hunter walking along the road with a gun now a days.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:39 PM   #23
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yup - 10-11 years ago i was shooting nutria in a trashcan in the alley with a .22 rifle in this little town; a few years before that was knocking pigeons (flying rats) off the roof of a rental apartment building in Salem with a .22 pellet pistol. At this point in time I would avoid either - be afraid I'd get SWATed down in a hail of police gunfire.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:46 PM   #24
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I think they are trying to desensitize the "public." Most see a gun and think negative. They think DANGER. Plenty of people carry knives, which are far more dangerous (I think knives kill more people than guns, but not sure). But people have been conditioned to react negatively to guns for some reason.
A gun is just a thing. Just like a knife. Its the INTENT that matters, not the tool.
Not too long ago in my state (NH) we used to see hunters all the time walking and carrying their guns. Fewer and fewer people now hunt, and fewer and fewer are exposed to guns. I would expect someone to call 911 if they saw a hunter walking along the road with a gun now a days.
I grew up in the country and I am used to see hunters carrying their rifles in public. They were dressed like hunters, they behaved like hunters, their rifles (the tools of their trade) were unloaded when they were in public so their intents were clear and there was no reason to feel threatened. Other uniformed professionals carry loaded guns in public all the time (cops, military, security,...) and I don't feel threaten by them either because, again, their intent is clear.

But what is the intent of Joe Blow when he walks into a Starbucks with a loaded hand gun clearly visible on his hip? Is it for self-defense? Is it to send a message? Is it for intimidation? Is he mentally unstable and ready to shoot everyone in the joint if his latte is not prepared just so? Personally, I don't want to have to find out...
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Old 03-12-2010, 01:15 PM   #25
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Firedreamer and I are both of the same opinion.

A hunter to carries their rifle in public unloaded does so to keep it from being stolen out of his/her car, or they are shopping for something associated with the rifle so they need it in hand.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:19 PM   #26
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So you see a visible gun as different than an hidden gun? What about a visible gun (legal) as opposed to legal concealed carry? Or illegal concealed carry?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'd carry a gun on my hip (only time I did was when in military uniform) for a jaunt down town.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:05 PM   #27
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So you see a visible gun as different than an hidden gun? .. .
The mind set, a visible gun is intended to deliver a message - intimidation.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:17 PM   #28
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So you see a visible gun as different than an hidden gun? What about a visible gun (legal) as opposed to legal concealed carry? Or illegal concealed carry?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'd carry a gun on my hip (only time I did was when in military uniform) for a jaunt down town.
Of course all this is a very personal opinion. But I do believe that people who insist on being able to openly carry a weapon in public do so for reasons that go beyond the need for self-defense. After all, people can use a concealed weapon to defend themselves. So why push the open carry? Personally, I think that they are trying to send a message, a message of aggression. Now, I don't know who the message is intended for (the government? thugs? liberals? guys with a bigger wiener?), but even if I am not the targeted audience all I know is that I am getting the message loud and clear all the same.

And it goes without saying that I am opposed to illegal open or conceal carry.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:31 PM   #29
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yup - 10-11 years ago i was shooting nutria in a trashcan in the alley with a .22 rifle in this little town; a few years before that was knocking pigeons (flying rats) off the roof of a rental apartment building in Salem with a .22 pellet pistol. At this point in time I would avoid either - be afraid I'd get SWATed down in a hail of police gunfire.
When I was at University (more than 10 years ago) I would board a plane for home carrying my shotgun in a case, I'd give it to the flight attendant to stow with the topcoats and stuff behind the cockpit.

We also carried shotguns and rifles across campus after going hunting. No one gave it a thought.

After the millenium I still shot my SIG 9mm in my backyard, into a bullet trap I built. There was only woods behind me for along way.

I'll say it once more, the world is going to crap of late.

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Old 03-12-2010, 05:51 PM   #30
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What about bumper stickers? Are those intimidating? I mean, they already have the 1st amendment, so why advertise it!

Sorry, just pulling your chain. I don't see the display of a gun an act of agression or intimidation. I look at the intent of the person. Inanimate objects don't have intent, they are tools.

I'm sure the Starbucks people are doing it as a political statement. We have some folks here in NH doing the same, trying to get arrested and cause a scene.

The last thing I'd want to do is walk around with a gun on my hip. First, they are expensive! I don't walk around with $1000 bills on my hip, so wouldn't do so with my guns.

If I want to show them off, I'd go to a range. Like minded gun enthusiasts there.

But, hey, to each his own. Thats what makes this country great.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:02 PM   #31
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I seriously doubt that anyone straps on a gun to deliberately intimidate folks. On the contrary, if I walked into the Galleria mall in South Bay and saw some guys walk by with guns on I'd probably snicker.

The mindset is in the mind of the person feeling intimidated I would venture to guess. Same folks who would be intimidated by a group of black teens standing on a street corner late at night. All in your prejudices. Reality is something that doesn't occur to everyone equally.

The motives of the person with a handgun displayed are unknown to anyone except that person. Just like the motives of that group of black teens, waiting for the pastor to bring the church bus around to drive them all home after choir practice are unknown.

Just prejudice I suspect, one way or the other.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:18 PM   #32
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Thank you for your expert analysis of my prejudices Zero. I was foolish enough to share my opinion, I should have known better.

You have a good life now.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:29 PM   #33
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Zero, indeed I pre-judge the intention of a person who openly displays a weapon because of the consequences of its use. This 'prejudice' is entirely appropriate. This has NOTHING to do with race so don't try to justify your opinion by implying it is.

I will absent that setting immediately and tell those that control that space subsequently. If they permit that behavior I just won't deal with them, at all.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:29 PM   #34
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Thank you for your expert analysis of my prejudices Zero. I was foolish enough to share my opinion, I should have known better.

You have a good life now.
Uhhhh, it was directed at a comment by someone else! Not you at all.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:35 PM   #35
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Zero, indeed I pre-judge the intention of a person who openly displays a weapon because of the consequences of its use. This 'prejudice' is entirely appropriate. This has NOTHING to do with race so don't try to justify your opinion by implying it is.

I will absent that setting immediately and tell those that control that space subsequently. If they permit that behavior I just won't deal with them, at all.
I disagree that prejudice is "entirely appropriate". My good friends in Odessa, TX wear a gun everyday as they go about daily chores on their ranch. Not one of them, 4 brothers and a few cousins, are out to intimidate anyone.

They legally own pistols and display them because it's easier to carry them. And the consequences of their use is that a coyote bothering their stock might get shot.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:39 PM   #36
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I was foolish enough to share my opinion, I should have known better.
"Sharing an opinion" doesn't even make in to my top 100 foolish things a person can do.
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:06 PM   #37
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We weren't discussing openly carrying a gun on a farm or ranch - the intended use is clear, or even at the farm store, personally. I have no problem with that.

We were talking about openly displaying a gun in Starbucks, or a retailer in an urban area.
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:28 PM   #38
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We weren't discussing openly carrying a gun on a farm or ranch - the intended use is clear, or even at the farm store, personally. I have no problem with that.

We were talking about openly displaying a gun in Starbucks, or a retailer in an urban area.
And I understand that, as my previous post a few posts back shows and I'm very much "not" in favor of anyone openly carrying a gun in a city, but I am in favor of their right to do so. And if they chose to do it, I might shake my head a bit but I do not immediately assume they are doing it for some particular reason. That is my point.

Maybe they are a policeman off-duty and had their gun in the front seat and didn't want to leave it in the car for fear of theft. I have no reason to think differently.

My point is that I do not immediately think the person is out to intimidate me. If you do, fine. We certainly have a right to differing reactions and opinions.

So, I would not walk out of a Starbucks if someone came in with a displayed pistol.
EDIT: And neither will I suddenly buy my coffee at Starbucks because they allow open carry.
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:40 PM   #39
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Why don't we insert a little realism here?

Downtown is full of people who are much much more threatening than some odd duck who wants to wear his Ruger Blackhawk on his hip. How about all the young guys who wear their pants below their butts, prison style? Or the gang insignia, or the huge coats on warm days just right to conceal whatever armaments they wish to conceal.

Anyone who thinks some dork wearing a holstered gun in Seattle is out to intimidate hasn't been treated to much real intimidation.

Nevertheless, I am not any more fond of these displays than of some of the others I mentioned.

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Old 03-13-2010, 03:12 PM   #40
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Consider myself pretty much of an absolutist (that's not a vodka drinker, by the way - though I've had my long week ends, heh, heh) when it comes to the bill of rights. That obviously includes the 2nd amendment. I had a CCW on the mainland and often packed. Having said all that, I'm against the principle of open carry, simply BECAUSE of the reactions of other folks. I've tried to live my life being reasonably considerate of other folks feelings - even if I don't understand or agree with them. I would never "stare" at someone on an elevator because it can be intimidating. It's just common courtesy. So, unless I'm in the wide open spaces (or at the gun range) I always conceal. NO ONE has EVER seen my concealed-carry weapon. I consider it a courtesy.

Regarding the principle of carrying any weapon, concealed or otherwise (and any referral to "wild west" situations which might ensue) I have found that those who carry are much LESS apt to get into an altercation BECAUSE they know the consequences of the use of deadly force. I have discussed this subject at length with others who carry. While I have entered premises clearly marked "no concealed weapons" while carrying (e.g., Starbucks of another place and time) I specifically NEVER went into any bars, entertainment venues, etc. where fights seem to erupt upon occasion. I just wouldn't do it.

Carrying a deadly weapon is an awesome responsibility. If anyone doubts their own judgement (as I would in a bar especially after social lubrication) DON'T carry - concealed or otherwise.

I've made a personal decision not to even own a weapon in Hawaii. CCWs are virtually impossible to get here. Too much hassle and worry (e.g., possibility of theft) to keep a weapon in the home. I DO own a ball bat if anyone should attempt to enter, uninvited while I'm home, heh, heh. Otherwise, they can have my cheap TV and clock radio. They won't find a gun, though.
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