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Old 06-14-2008, 10:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
I dont think I'd recommend running 87 octane in an engine that demands 91.
I don't think anyone suggested that. I thought the discussion was whether to use 87 or 91 for improved mpg in an engine that can accept either 87-91 (per the owners manual, to be specific).

I'd word your statement much stronger - if the engine 'demands' 91 (again, per the owner's manual) - DO NOT use 87!

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Old 06-14-2008, 11:57 AM   #22
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I saw a news story on hypermiling where the guy pushed his car to start it rolling then jumped in. I'm waiting for a spate of stories on people running themselves over. It's going to happen.
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:41 PM   #23
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I saw that video, and one interesting thing I noticed is the device that lets you monitor mileage. Probably not worth it at $169, but interesting.

ScanGaugeII - Scan Tool + Digital Gauges + Trip Computers

Anyone know how it works? From the site:

Once connected to your vehicles OBDII port, the ScanGaugeII automatically negotiates communications with your cars computer


I guess almost all cars have that port. How do you think they monitor gas usage? Is there a flow meter on the fuel line?
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:45 PM   #24
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is drafting more rude, dangerous or greedy? i've had speed skaters drafting behind me as i bike along the beach & i don't even like that. try it on my car & you'll be eating my bumper. behind an 18-wheeler? they don't have enough trouble monitoring traffic behind them? have you any idea what those doubled wheels of theirs can pick up off the road and spear right though your car? what does your drafting do for their gas mileage? drafting, another good, gas-saving idea.
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:53 PM   #25
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Al - as far as I know, all modern cars sold in the US have an ODBII port. The standard defines the physical connector and requires that it be within easy reach under the dash near the steering wheel.

Now as you might expect, nobody can just conform to the standard and be done with it. There are many variations and different manufacturers use different codes. The better and more expensive your 'code reader' is, the smarter it is about working with more of the varieties, explaining the code reports, or allowing you to change or reset values.

Some cars might report gas mileage to some readers. But you'd be wise to make sure a particular scanner is known to work with your particular vehicles and give you the information you expect.
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Old 06-14-2008, 01:03 PM   #26
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i've found the scanner on the vertible gt to be surprisingly accurate in estimating how far i can travel on remaining fuel. i think it reads based on my driving characteristics of the previous 200 miles or so. so if i've been playing, it won't be so accurate for the first part of a long roadtrip and visa versa.

regardless, the vertible doesn't seem to have a hypermiling setting.
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Old 06-14-2008, 01:12 PM   #27
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I never drafted directly behind on my trip. I was just to the rear of their bumper on the left in the #1 lane while they were in the #2.
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Old 06-14-2008, 02:22 PM   #28
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Just installed a Scangauge in my new Yaris,not sure how it gets gas mpg but it definitely gets it from some where,set up took about a minute,understanding all the gauges and what they mean may take a little longer.Although its listed at $169 group buys abound and it can be had for $149 "eg"Scangauge Group Buy In Progress - Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site

Heres some good reading on the deviceOfficial Scangauge II Thread - Share your Data, Discuss Settings ,Problems, Findings! - Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
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Old 06-14-2008, 02:48 PM   #29
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I never drafted directly behind on my trip. I was just to the rear of their bumper on the left in the #1 lane while they were in the #2.
oh good, so you're riding in my blind spot. as if that won't piss me off. seriously, unless we are in bumper to bumper traffic, anyone, who i do not personally know, riding along side me for more than just a few moments will be assumed to be an enemy combatant and will trigger aversive action.

"when i know myself, i know others,
when i master myself
i don't need to master others."~~tao te ching, stephen mitchell translation
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
I saw that video, and one interesting thing I noticed is the device that lets you monitor mileage. Probably not worth it at $169, but interesting.

ScanGaugeII - Scan Tool + Digital Gauges + Trip Computers

Anyone know how it works? From the site:

Once connected to your vehicles OBDII port, the ScanGaugeII automatically negotiates communications with your cars computer


I guess almost all cars have that port. How do you think they monitor gas usage? Is there a flow meter on the fuel line?
I dunno, but a "trip computer" is an option on many cars, and mine has one. It can divine aggregate mileage and display it. I'm guessing they use the same data.

The injectors are computer-controlled, and I expect there is a fuel pressure sensor. Perhaps they get a good idea of consumption based on that. My trip computer also gives me "Range", an estimate of how many miles until my fuel tank is empty.

I haven't attempted to verify its numbers against mpg at each fillup, so I don't know how accurate it is.
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:27 PM   #31
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My mom has a gas mileage computer in her PT Cruiser but it doesnt come close to what the Scan Gauge can do.
Scan Gauge will give you a constant read out of all these parameters=
Fuel Rate
Battery Voltage
Coolant Temperature
Intake Air Temperature
Engine Speed (RPM)
Vehicle speed (MPH)
Manifold Pressure
(not available on some vehicles)
Engine Load
Throttle Position
Ignition Timing
Open/Closed Loop

and a trip computer for:
Maximum Speed
Average Speed
Maximum Coolant Temperature
Maximum RPM
Driving Time
Driving Distance
Fuel Used
Trip Fuel Economy
Distance to Empty
Time to Empty
Fuel to Empty

and finally a scan code reader:
Reads Trouble Codes
Reads conditions that set the Trouble Code
Clears Trouble Codes
Turns off "Check Engine" light

Tells you when vehicle is "Ready" to pass OBDII testing
Make and store up to 10 rewritable special codes
to send to the vehicle computer

For $150 its worth it to me...
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Old 06-14-2008, 07:52 PM   #32
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oh good, so you're riding in my blind spot.
Actually no, Im riding on your left in the number one lane.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:10 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
My mom has a gas mileage computer in her PT Cruiser but it doesnt come close to what the Scan Gauge can do.
Scan Gauge will give you a constant read out of all these parameters=
Fuel Rate
Battery Voltage
Coolant Temperature
Intake Air Temperature
Engine Speed (RPM)
Vehicle speed (MPH)
Manifold Pressure
(not available on some vehicles)
Engine Load
Throttle Position
Ignition Timing
Open/Closed Loop

and a trip computer for:
Maximum Speed
Average Speed
Maximum Coolant Temperature
Maximum RPM
Driving Time
Driving Distance
Fuel Used
Trip Fuel Economy
Distance to Empty
Time to Empty
Fuel to Empty

and finally a scan code reader:
Reads Trouble Codes
Reads conditions that set the Trouble Code
Clears Trouble Codes
Turns off "Check Engine" light

Tells you when vehicle is "Ready" to pass OBDII testing
Make and store up to 10 rewritable special codes
to send to the vehicle computer

For $150 its worth it to me...

Thanks for the report. That's pretty nice. Considering you can move it from car-to-car, not such a bad price.

Took DD car in for the IL EPA check - 1/2 hour drive each way, and an hour wait (they were having problems - they closed the one near me, I never waited more than 2 minutes there).

As I'm waiting, I realized that I had disconnected her battery the other day while trouble shooting an separate problem (electric windows), and I remember that the 'NOT-READY' status might not have been cleared yet. That device would have let me know I was OK.

Quote:
Tells you when vehicle is "Ready" to pass OBDII testing
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:44 AM   #34
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Seems I've read that premium fuel can improve the mpg slightly (assuming your car can take either), but I'm also guessing that that is only if you drive somewhat aggressively. Here's the thought process:

A) Premium fuel helps reduce knocking.
B) Knocking tends to occur under hard acceleration.
C) Modern engines will adjust the timing (reduce power) if they detect knocking. Under that condition, premium can provide better power because there is less knocking, so the engine does not cut back power.
D) If you are already driving conservatively, you probably are rarely/never pushing your car into a knocking condition with regular fuel, therefore, premium will be a waste of money.

Does that jibe with other's understanding?

-ERD50
No, actually light detonation = maximum efficiency. Hard acceleration is never good for fuel economy. Light detonation generally occurs at low engin speed/ high vehicle load condition, like pulling a hill and your car is nearing a downshift point
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:12 AM   #35
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No, actually light detonation = maximum efficiency. Hard acceleration is never good for fuel economy. Light detonation generally occurs at low engin speed/ high vehicle load condition, like pulling a hill and your car is nearing a downshift point
I think you misunderstood my post.

Of course hard acceleration is never good for fuel economy. But, if someone DOES drive that way, and their car is rated for 87/91, they *might* get better mpg with the 91 than with 87 octane.

My assumption/question was - if you drive conservatively, you probably will not see an mpg increase with 91 vs 87 in that car.

-ERD50
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:21 AM   #36
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apparently hard acceleration is the only way to rid yourself of drafters. this is why instead of hypermiling i keep 300 hp under the hood, a set of good tires on under the car and hypermilers in my dust.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:26 AM   #37
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apparently hard acceleration is the only way to rid yourself of drafters.
Hard deceleration will do it too - I assume the 'stang has good brakes? With the proper technique, the drafter will have a cleaning bill to deal with. That might teach them.

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Old 06-15-2008, 03:59 PM   #38
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is drafting more rude, dangerous or greedy? ... what does your drafting do for their gas mileage? drafting, another good, gas-saving idea.
Lazy, there was an earlier thread on hypermiling

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ing-35458.html

where it was explained that drafting does not affect the mileage of the draftee (the vehicle being followed).

Personally I don't pay too much attention to the cars behind me so being drafted wouldn't bother me (and in Illinois there is a law that you are supposed to stay in the right lane except to pass, so someone would not legally be able to draft behind someone in the right lane by staying in the left lane--so I guess all the cars in the right lane are sort of drafting each other by default).

I do think it's much much harder to be the drafter in that it requires a lot of concentration to anticipate and react to what that truck or car in front of you is doing. We're doing two long distance interstate trips this summer and will try to conserve mileage by staying at the speed limit as much as possible rather than drafting.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:33 PM   #39
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how i drive, i wouldn't notice the difference in my gas usage even if drafting did make a difference. but really, that's not the issue. it is as you say wrong to block the passing lane. it is wrong for someone to keep matching speed with another car and to try to control their driving from your car just so you can benefit from them breaking wind. (pardon the crassness, but come up on my ass and i'll break some wind for you.) it is wrong to get people behind you upset by blocking lanes. it is wrong to be driving so close to someone that they would endanger you both should they have to swirve to avoid whatever might show up in front of them.

i realize that most people drive like driven cattle. you go to the beach, find a spot by yourself, wake up and rest of the beach is still empty but crowded next to you. and that's how a lot of them drive. but unless it is bumper to bumper, i don't drive in packs. i space myself from the other cars. if i am in a passing lane, i don't linger there; i pass. if someone wants to get by me i make way for them. i don't ride bumpers and i don't draft.

it is one thing when people drive in packs unconsciously. but when someone closes in and matches your speed consciously? outrageous. why, the only good reason i can think of drafting is shear selfishness.

i likely won't slam my breaks on you because i don't want you screwing up the person behind you. but i won't put up with drafters for as long as i notice they are there. and i am very aware of the other cars near mine.
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Old 06-15-2008, 08:30 PM   #40
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I think you misunderstood my post.

Of course hard acceleration is never good for fuel economy. But, if someone DOES drive that way, and their car is rated for 87/91, they *might* get better mpg with the 91 than with 87 octane.

My assumption/question was - if you drive conservatively, you probably will not see an mpg increase with 91 vs 87 in that car.

-ERD50
Sorry if I misunderstood, but the main point I was making was that light detonation is "good" in terms of fuel economy. I agree higher octane would generally not increase mpg.
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