I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

[jeff2006]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 China is lurking in the future.

As I said, Uncle Sam will need to learn to get along with other people . . . war is not the solution

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl Yes, you really have to remember what it was like to be eligible for the draft. Anyone remember their draft lottery number (mine was 175)?

25

[dumpster56]

288

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 288

newguy888...... this is your chance to redeem yourself for having that high draft lottery number. You can be first for the new, all inclusive draft.

[BarbaraAnne]

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Originally Posted by newguy888 Well I do have dogs in the fight son is 27 son in law 26 young nephew is 20.

The Vietnam draft was 19, not 26 or 27. I unfortunately remember it well as many friends and family member sweated their draft numbers. It was a terrible time, don't wish it back...

[eridanus]

Yellow Elephants unite!

---------------------
Republican staffers, a new career awaits

Dear Republican staffer-

As you know, the last election cycle has left many of you looking for employment.

We are hiring.

We know many of you are patriotic Americans who long to serve their country, and take great pride in the country and it's ideals.
----------------------

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 We need to show the Iranians that we mean business. Otherwise they will have a nuclear weapon. We need a 5 million man army AGAIN. Rumsfeld is gone and his ideas well look at Iraq do not work. Smaller faster, yada yada yada. No we need bigtime boots on the ground from all walks of american society. Not just people who join.

Newguy, are you trolling or ranting? It's getting increasingly difficult to tell, and it's getting pretty annoying to boot.

On the chance that you're asking a serious question, or at least for the other members of the board, here's my thoughts.

What was your opinion when nukes were developed by South Africa, Israel, Pakistan, and India? Do you want to go to war with them, too? What about North Korea? I don't think nuclear capability is the same as nuclear use.

Before you get all gung ho about Iran, look at a topographic map. I don't know of a single staff officer or battalion commander who'd crack the war plan and think "Oh, boy!" The whole country is a bear trap that makes Afghanistan look like a beach party. The military's tactical publications are full of dire discussions on terrain, weather, logistics issues, and... did I mention that Iran actually has a functioning air force? Would it be OK with you if the U.S. used nukes on Iran while we were covering our shortfalls from Iraq and other global hotspots?

If it makes you feel better, in 1979 I went through the Army's Airborne school with an Iranian O-3. The Army instructors were terrified of the Iranians-- because they tended to disregard procedures, freeze up, and injure themselves or even others. These were theoretically the best military that Iran had to offer and they weren't very good. No doubt that'll console the people who get their assets shot off protecting your best interests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraAnne I notice that all of those gung ho for the draft on this forum don't have draft age kids. It's easy to be pro-draft when you have "no dog in the fight"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 Well I do have dogs in the fight son is 27 son in law 26 young nephew is 20.

So how do they feel about your urgency for them to help you take care of Iraq? After Vietnam the entire Army, and much of the rest of the military, was specifically redesigned to require massive Reserve mobilizations before a draft could be used. I know that no one in the military is looking forward to training a bunch of people who don't want to be in uniform, let alone in theater. That's hard enough with the Reserves, let alone the draftees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 Face real facts until the world becomes kumbaya we better be strong as getout because China is lurking in the future.

How has that changed in the last 50 years? As far as I can tell we're competing with them for resources that we'd be better off finding alternatives to anyway-- oil, steel, and precious metals. As long as they're developing a consumer mentality, it's far cheaper to conquer China with foreign aid, McDonald's, and MTV Beijing than to try militarism.

BTW you'll be happy to know that PACOM spent last quarter inviting Chinese senior officers to ride U.S. aircraft carriers during an exercise off Guam. Last month they visited San Diego to see additional military bases & commands, and last week they visited PACOM. I'm sure they've had plenty of opportunity to assess American military capabilities and draw their own conclusions.

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathras Why should I? I don't plan to be using oil. Geothermal heat, solar and in a 2-3 years a car that runs on electricity. There are always options. As for the strangle-hold oil has on us, we have lots of technologies that could replace oil. Problem is, we have an ex-oil man in the white house and the oil companies throw around money like there is no tomorrow (someday that will be the case for them). We pump 40% of our own oil, that is plenty for plastic, tires, etc. Get off oil and we have little worries.

You don't get it, do you? The reason we're interested in Iraq and other countries with significant oil reserves is not because we need the oil, or that we can't wean ourselves off of it. Rather, we simply don't want countries like China to have access to the oil necessary for their economies to eclipse our own.

Take a look at the following:

Quote:

China's oil consumption surpassed its production in 1993, at around 3 million barrels a day. Since then, consumption has risen to 5.5 million barrels a day, making China the world's largest oil consumer after the United States. As a result, 30 percent of China's oil needs now come from imports. With domestic production flat and the economy growing 9 percent annually, imports are bound to rise steeply in the years to come. The U.S. Energy Information Administration has estimated China will need almost 11 million barrels a day by 2025 to keep its cars running and factories humming. Source: Washington Post, June 30, 2005

Here is another interesting excerpt:

Quote:

Until recently, China's view of the global energy map focused narrowly on the Middle East, which holds roughly two-thirds of the world's oil. Special attention was directed toward one well-supplied country: Iraq. Through cultivation of Saddam Hussein's government, China sought to develop some of Iraq's more promising reserves. Beijing advocated lifting the United Nations sanctions that prevented investment in Iraq's oil patch and limited sales of its production. Then the United States went to war in Iraq in 2003, wiping out China's stakes. The war and its aftermath have reshaped China's basic conception of the geopolitics of oil and added urgency to its mission to lessen dependence on Middle East supplies. It has reinforced China's fears that it is locked in a zero-sum contest for energy with the world's lone superpower, prompting Beijing to intensify its search for new sources, international relations and energy experts say. ***** "Iraq changed the government's thinking," said Pan Rui, an international relations expert at Fudan University in Shanghai. "The Middle East is China's largest source of oil. America is now pursuing a grand strategy, the pursuit of American hegemony in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia is the number one oil producer, and Iraq is number two [in terms of reserves]. Now, the United States has direct influence in both countries." ***** In little more than a decade, China has changed from a net exporter of oil into the world's second-largest importer, trailing only the United States. Concern is mounting about future prospects for China's domestic oil production, which supplies about two-thirds of the country's crude oil needs. China's government estimates that it will need 600 million tons of crude oil a year by 2020, more than triple its expected output. Worldwide, the best oil fields are already claimed. Source: Washington Post, July 13, 2005

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl Anyone remember their draft lottery number (mine was 175)?

1

[honobob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl Yes, you really have to remember what it was like to be eligible for the draft. Anyone remember their draft lottery number (mine was 175)?

315! Everyone seems to remember. Must of been important.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo! 1

I'm amazed they let you in the USAF with a number like that-- you would've been desperate enough to go Marine infantry!

[REWahoo]

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Originally Posted by Nords I'm amazed they let you in the USAF with a number like that-- you would've been desperate enough to go Marine infantry!

Desperate, yes. Insane, no.

It was close. I was accepted and sworn in on a Friday afternoon...the bus to the induction center departed the following Monday morining at 5 AM.... without me. :P

[rs0460a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl What if the draft were to consist of early retirees?

Been There - Done That (and at my age at the time <19> you didn't have an option for a "lottery". As soon as you were "eligible", you received your "Greetings" from your "uncle <Sam>"... )...

[Patrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 Are you ready to sit in colder homes, sit on gasoline lines? remember the straits of hormooooooz are very close to Iran, do you believe the oil facilities in the persian gulf will be safe? Nope it will all be in flames and the crazy people in the middle east DO NOT CARE if it causes americans to suffer! They will then cause all kinds of things to go bang. We will need a large force to destroy and conquor the country IF WE decide to attack the Iranians. We will have a high price to pay since no real ability to talk to 11th century crazy bin laden followers and the shia in Iran who quite frankly have embraced suicide bombers. They will have to be defeated , and I am a liberal democrat. Go figure.

I live in a warm climate. My house is all electric. I have an electric car.

But for the rest of the U.S., not to worry. Bush's friends (the Saudis) will continue to sell us oil.

I agree they (Iran) need to be defeated, but I believe we can do that with minimal loss of American lives. Why in the world would you want to put troops on the ground in Iran after the debacle in Iraq? It's not necessary.

[farmerEd]

I agree, a draft(with no exceptions) should be brought back...not so that we can build up a 5 million person army, but so that the country really can decide if the wars they are supporting are worth *their* sons and daughters dying for...not somebody elses. Too many middle-aged fat white guys sitting behind computers in their offices waving flags and "suporting the troops" and declaring that the lost lives "are worth it". Easy to say when its someone elses life.

Not only do we need a draft, we need a war tax. Want to spend $1,000,000,000 a week fighting a useless war in some foreign country for dubios reasons? Great, cough up the dough to pay for it. Don't pass on the expense of the war to the future generation - if its important enough to fight, its important enough to pay for now.

[2soon2tell]

No lottery number. Graduated college summer 1968, called for draft physical sept. 1968, accepted for Navy OCS nov. 1968 the same day my draft letter was to be mailed. Not a great time to be coming out of college.

2soon

[astromeria]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo! 1

oy. My ex was 2.

[JohnP]

I was Commissioned by the AF in June 67 - got an educational delay to complete MS - Completed MS july 68 - Went on active duty 15 Aug 68.

I fervently hope that the administration doesn't plan to nuke the alleged Iranian facilities in another unprovoked attack.

The US military will need a generation to recover from the Iraq disaster.

JohnP

[astromeria]

IMO, the election of a majority-Democratic Congress has materially reduced the likelihood of President Bush pursuing an Iran War on the heels of the Iraq War. Unlike the Iraq War on the hells <think I'll just leave that typo-> of the Afghanistan War with a rubber-stamping majority-Republican Congress. Arrrgh...what do these guys think checks & balances mean?!? Well, I'll tell them: it means when the Prez is doing something foolish, ya call him on it, and if he doesn't back off, you stop him!

[dumpster56]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Newguy, are you trolling or ranting? It's getting increasingly difficult to tell, and it's getting pretty annoying to boot. What was your opinion when nukes were developed by South Africa, Israel, Pakistan, and India? Do you want to go to war with them, too? What about North Korea? I don't think nuclear capability is the same as nuclear use. Kinda have an issue with all countries that have nukes. Problem is most humans cannot or will not talk to each other. Why in the world does our present administration not speak to the Iranians? Amanadinijan has stated he wants to wipe Israel off the map. Bluster? They lost a million men against Saddam in that idiotic war in the 80s suicide bombers, etc now. what would you do. Should the west allow Israel into NATO and their security be taken care of? seems like a no brainer, except the people who live in Israel are well jews. North Korea, interesting mess that has festered for 50 years, again people in power have let it happen both parties and other nations. India Pakistan, $hit they have their own set of problems and hatreds. South africa, great for them to have a bomb really helps their country. So how do they feel about your urgency for them to help you take care of Iraq? After Vietnam the entire Army, and much of the rest of the military, was specifically redesigned to require massive Reserve mobilizations before a draft could be used. I know that no one in the military is looking forward to training a bunch of people who don't want to be in uniform, let alone in theater. That's hard enough with the Reserves, let alone the draftees. We should leave the Iraqi mess since it will look the same in 10 years heck maybe 50 just like the mess in gaza and the west bank. But alas the morons who sold us this war are well white guys who never fought a war. BTW you'll be happy to know that PACOM spent last quarter inviting Chinese senior officers to ride U.S. aircraft carriers during an exercise off Guam. Last month they visited San Diego to see additional military bases & commands, and last week they visited PACOM. I'm sure they've had plenty of opportunity to assess American military capabilities and draw their own conclusions.

Whats with the chinese sub that was stalking the kitty hawk last month and we didn't know about it until it surfaces 5 miles from her on october 26th??