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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 10:50 AM   #61
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

Bottom line, the womd reason for the attack on Iraq was bogus, many saw thru the bad information and yes EVERYONE saw the info saying saddam had womd, yadayadayada.

We marched into Baghdad and let the Iraqi army GO HOME! we never defeated these guys we never secured the ammo depots, we allowed militias to run wild, remember sadir??

We must agree that the military DID NOT DO everything right, in fact bumbled a whole heck of alot.

That said when I hear how the military is better today as an all volunteer outfit I disagree, my father who was drafted into the Korean war and other draftees at that time were college educated, doctors other professionals, there were really no deferrments like Vietnam. So your assumption that the all volunteer army is better is well wrong. They may take orders better and hey I guess that is what counts. Follow what you are told even if it is the wrong thing to do.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 10:55 AM   #62
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

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Originally Posted by newguy888
That said when I hear how the military is better today as an all volunteer outfit I disagree, my father who was drafted into the Korean war and other draftees at that time were college educated, doctors other professionals, there were really no deferrments like Vietnam. So your assumption that the all volunteer army is better is well wrong. They may take orders better and hey I guess that is what counts. Follow what you are told even if it is the wrong thing to do.
Did you get this from John Kerry's joke writer?
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 11:02 AM   #63
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

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That said when I hear how the military is better today as an all volunteer outfit I disagree, my father who was drafted into the Korean war and other draftees at that time were college educated, doctors other professionals, there were really no deferrments like Vietnam. So your assumption that the all volunteer army is better is well wrong. They may take orders better and hey I guess that is what counts. Follow what you are told even if it is the wrong thing to do.
That is a stretch. There is no doubt the voluntary military of today is much more effective, efficient, and lethal than our military in the passed. If you don't believe it ask those who served during the draft years and within the last couple years. I only have the second hand stories form the old timers hen I joined. The difference in professionalism between the draftees and the current military is like night and day.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 11:49 AM   #64
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
That said when I hear how the military is better today as an all volunteer outfit I disagree, my father who was drafted into the Korean war and other draftees at that time were college educated, doctors other professionals, there were really no deferrments like Vietnam. So your assumption that the all volunteer army is better is well wrong.
I don't suppose you're able to provide links to some objective evidence that today's volunteer military is worse than the Korean War draftees? Or is this limited to family anecdotes?

Does a deferment imply that an unwilling educated draftee is somehow "better" than a willing (uneducated or educated) volunteer?

As long as our fathers are determining our evidenciary conclusions, my father was 16 in 1950 and was deferred for every one of the years that he was a college student. However when he graduated he reported for infantry recruit training, achieved the skill level of guarding a tank at night without hurting himself or his fellow soldiers, and was released early to continue his career as an electrical engineer. Somehow the Army was persuaded that his college-degree engineering skills were more important than guarding tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
They may take orders better and hey I guess that is what counts. Follow what you are told even if it is the wrong thing to do.
Having worked with quite a few of those volunteers, I can vouch that orders are questioned at least as much by them as by any civilian. They may not take orders any better, but their questioning & thinking outlook helps make those orders better. And I don't think any court in the land, or any military institution, espouses the "just following orders" defense. Oh, yeah, here it is: "... and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

BTW some of those "volunteers" enter the military with more bullet wounds, knife scars, & tattoos than many of the veterans. If they have that experience before they take the oath, then why the heck do they still volunteer?
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 07:16 PM   #65
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

Patrick and D-to-D, the evil booger who masterminded the 9/11 attacks is still at large. We quit looking for him in order to invade Iraq, a stupid, pointless waste of time, money and human life.

I think more and more that the "islamofascists" will win without another attack on the U.S.--all they have to do is wait and watch while we blither around wasting money on the current war. When our economy tanks, they win.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 07:22 PM   #66
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

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Patrick and D-to-D, the evil booger who masterminded the 9/11 attacks is still at large. We quit looking for him in order to invade Iraq, a stupid, pointless waste of time, money and human life.

I think more and more that the "islamofascists" will win without another attack on the U.S.--all they have to do is wait and watch while we blither around wasting money on the current war. When our economy tanks, they win.
That is one reason the republicans LOST!!

Bush has failed, Bin Laden is free the guy who STARTED THE WAR!!

Saddam. please, he was givin mixed messages from Bush I before he invaded Kuwait, oh yea when we went to free Kuwait the kuwaiti men went to vacation in Spain and other places.

we really are darn stupid.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 08:03 PM   #67
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawny Dangle
Patrick and D-to-D, the evil booger who masterminded the 9/11 attacks is still at large. We quit looking for him in order to invade Iraq, a stupid, pointless waste of time, money and human life.
We did not quit looking for UBL. And you see nothing positive from the Iraq war? Deposing Saddam? Giving the Iraqi people a chance for democracy?

Quote:
I think more and more that the "islamofascists" will win without another attack on the U.S.--all they have to do is wait and watch while we blither around wasting money on the current war. When our economy tanks, they win.
What makes you believe that a downturn in the economy will cause our ruin? We did quite well in WWII after the greatest depression in the country's history.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 08:18 PM   #68
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

[quote=Patrick ]
We did not quit looking for UBL. And you see nothing positive from the Iraq war? Deposing Saddam? Giving the Iraqi people a chance for democracy?

Drinking republican koolaid?

Iraq democracy, ok, sure sunnis, shia who hate each other tribal garbage, kinda like the old yugoslavia, which does not exist anymore. The strongman Tito died and poof so goes the fabric that kept the place together, a strongman.

Saddam, was a secular strongman, Nuts as all getout, But he stoped playing ball with america because he was nuts.

Now these people will keep killing each other for years to come.

Sorry find Bin Laden, He started this mess, not saddam.

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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 10:47 PM   #69
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

[

Just had to add my 2 cents. The well connected/rich/powerful ARE NEVER DRAFTED! NOT THEIR CHILDREN NOR ANYONE ELSE IN THEIR FAMILIES NADA!!
THAT'S THE WAY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE!
:

I don't care what kind of provisions you put in the legislation to try to stop that from happening. When you create a draft you are drafting the middle class on down and any other not so well connected people. Just take a look at our current president. :P
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-14-2006, 11:02 PM   #70
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

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Just had to add my 2 cents. The well connected/rich/powerful ARE NEVER DRAFTED! NOT THEIR CHILDREN NOR ANYONE ELSE IN THEIR FAMILIES NADA!!
THAT'S THE WAY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE!
:

I don't care what kind of provisions you put in the legislation to try to stop that from happening. When you create a draft you are drafting the middle class on down and any other not so well connected people. Just take a look at our current president. :P
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-15-2006, 10:25 AM   #71
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-15-2006, 10:56 AM   #72
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

What a disingenous comment! By wanting to reinstitute the draft you ARE putting my sons in harms way! It is an easy solution for those without draft-age children, like you, since they have no skin in the game. Remember, the volunteers in the military CAN make other choices. They CHOOSE to join.By bringing back the draft, you are giving my sons no choice but to fight in this ridiculous war. And by the way, we are neither "rich" nor "powerful" , just pawns in the system like most of the middle class.

Don't sacrifice my beloved sons for your political purposes!
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-15-2006, 11:20 AM   #73
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-15-2006, 11:58 AM   #74
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

We absolutely agree about the war! I have been against this war since it started. I believe the changes in the power structure due to the elections will be instrumental in starting the process. It was gratifying to see that the system work and those in power get the message. Americans have finally had enough!





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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-15-2006, 07:18 PM   #75
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

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We absolutely agree about the war! I have been against this war since it started. I believe the changes in the power structure due to the elections will be instrumental in starting the process. It was gratifying to see that the system work and those in power get the message. Americans have finally had enough!





But I want to see Bin Laden caught, remember Bush and his dead or alive comment. well we are pushing 5+ years since 9/11, and he and al zwahiri are still walking the planet.

But we are minding a civil war in Iraq.

Nuts.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-15-2006, 11:16 PM   #76
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

My two older brothers came close to being drafted. One actually did. But as luck would have it he was sent to work in a military hospital in Colorado instead of Vietnam. My Dad was in WWII and never talked about it.
I have two nephews who joined. One joined the Navy and the other the Army. The one in the Army missed this war and is out. The one in the Navy is still serving but has not been over there,(That I know of).
I think the middle class seems to allow itself to be hoodwinked over and over again! The wealthy etc. just have too many avenues to pursue their interests. I think the coporations have a grip on this country like they never have before. I've heard there's a documentary on the web called Iraq For Sale. Sorry I don't like the idea of the draft coming back.Too many wars are started for financial reasons..... started by those who proclaim otherwise.



P.S. I think if you did manage to draft legislation that they could not get out of, I'm sure they would still be taken care of while in the military and not be put in harm's way.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-15-2006, 11:52 PM   #77
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

Back to the original subject, I notice that John McCain said today that there should be 20,000 more soldiers in Iraq and that to pull out now would be a catastrophe for Iraq.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-16-2006, 05:00 AM   #78
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

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Back to the original subject, I notice that John McCain said today that there should be 20,000 more soldiers in Iraq and that to pull out now would be a catastrophe for Iraq.
Our intervention is a catastrophe for Iraq.

Sorry to say but either break up the country into 3 countries one for the shi, sunni and kurd give them all areas with OIL under their feet and see who has the best economy in 25 years.

But NOOOO, they are gonna have american democracy. Did ya see that piece on NBC last week about those sick guys trying to pick up the 13 YO on the internet??

Great place we got here in the good ole usa.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-16-2006, 06:05 AM   #79
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

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Sorry to say but either break up the country into 3 countries one for the shi, sunni and kurd give them all areas with OIL under their feet and see who has the best economy in 25 years.
I hate to say it but this might be the best option. That way none of the big three factions can complain that the others are discriminatory. Although once they got on their collective feet they would probably start fighting among themselves claiming rights to the other's lands.
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
Old 11-16-2006, 07:59 AM   #80
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Re: I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .

An Egyptian friend of mine believes that the country will turn into three sooner or later no matter what. The official US position for unity and democracy has turned out to be unworkable. Some in Washington understand this. Those at the top do not.

I agree with McCain. I just hope 20,000 is enough. We cannot hold an area and still respond to challenges without enough soldiers. It would be crazy to do this independently of an exit strategy, however. It may be possible to talk the Europeans into larger committments to fill this gap if we change course. Otherwise it comes down to a draft or withdrawal with failure.

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