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I joined Boglehead today - but will stay here also :-)
Old 05-06-2012, 10:23 AM   #1
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I joined Boglehead today - but will stay here also :-)

I joined the Boglehead forum today. No worries, I will stay here also - where I have enjoyed reading posts and learning from everyone For example, thanks to my readings here, I have modeled a more reliable spreadheet, have become aware of the meaning of "SWR", built a month by month cashflow analysis, decided to buy some deferred annuities, discovered new online calculators with you, etc. Thank you to everyone for sharing so much knowedge with those of us who are not financial experts.

For those who are members of both forums, what do you think are the main differences and similarities between the two ?
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:37 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by obgyn65 View Post
For those who are members of both forums, what do you think are the main differences and similarities between the two ?
I'm still a BH member (at least I still get mail from that forum, based upon opinions given years ago), I'm no longer an acive member.

To me, the BH forum was too much of "If you're not a VG promoter, you have little/no value".

That's a turnoff, in my/DW's case.

We have substantial investments in both VG and other investment companies, and we found that it's more important to take advantage of the best that each has to offer.

BH was not to my "taste"; that's why I no longer partipate in their discussions, nor look upon Mel/Taylor's opinions on VG as the only way to invest.

Since you asked ...
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:48 AM   #3
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IMO, ER.org's style is informational yet somewhat irreverent while the Bogleheads' style is more buttoned-up. ER.org is also more focused on all aspects of retirement and LBYM, while the Boglehead forum is almost purely centered around financial investments.

While I do respect the boglehead strategy, I do not follow it anymore. I am a bit mystified by the forum though. For a group whose motto can be summed up as "diversify, minimize costs, and ignore the noise", they do spend an awful lot of time talking about the noise. Which makes me wonder if people there truly live by what they preach. But the forum features a wealth of information, some very pointed technical discussions, and some great insight as well. That's why I keep visiting occasionally (though I rarely participate).
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:50 AM   #4
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I have noticed the VG bias also.

I left a couple of posts at Bogleheads a few months ago under a different screen name, but I "officially" joined today with the same username as the one I use here...

I have already seen a couple of threads there which are very similar to the ones we have here... I hope to learn as much there as I have learned here.

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To me, the BH forum was too much of "If you're not a VG promoter, you have little/no value".
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:50 AM   #5
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I'm an active member of both too. Why not?

I find Bogleheads to be more technical/serious on balance and more closely moderated (not that moderators are too loose here). The median age seems lower at BH since it's not targeting retirees, so many discussions are from the investing accumulation POV. While there are some very smart people here, there are some very well known published authors and FAs there - some post regularly, others infrequently.

Obviously retirement is more of a focus here and the median age is probably higher. There seems to be more (welcome) humor and more (inadvertent) hijacking/tangents here IME. As others have said, BH seems a more like minded crowd than here where all sorts of "divergent" POVs often appear.

A Vanguard bias seems prevelant at both sites, but that suits me.

Both are great sites. There are many questions and issues that can yield worthwhile replies at either forum. YMMV
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:24 AM   #6
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IMO, ER.org's style is informational yet somewhat irreverent while the Bogleheads' style is more buttoned-up. ER.org is also more focused on all aspects of retirement and LBYM, while the Boglehead forum is almost purely centered around financial investments.
I read and post there sometimes as well as here. Because I am not a frequent poster in either place, I may not find anything in one forum for a while I wish to reply to so the other one often gives me something. Then a week or so later, vice versa.

I agree with FIREd's view as well as Midpack's.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:41 AM   #7
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I agree with FIRE'd and Midpack.

BH is great for checking regularly for topics of interest (I-bond rates, for one, and for thinking about structuring and allocating your retirement portfolio). BH is more dogmatic and less open-minded in its views, yet informational. ER is much more community-oriented.

You can certainly learn from, and participate in, both.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:49 AM   #8
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I joined a couple weeks ago and haven't yet found it helpful. I did post a comment shortly after joining (using another handle) to a venture thread, however.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:32 PM   #9
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I dip into BH now and then because they have some good info. (Of course they're VG-biased - with a name like Bogleheads, what would one expect?)

I don't have time to monitor 2 financial forums, and ER is more about retirement, so more interesting to me.

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:59 PM   #10
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IMO, ER.org's style is informational yet somewhat irreverent while the Bogleheads' style is more buttoned-up. ER.org is also more focused on all aspects of retirement and LBYM, while the Boglehead forum is almost purely centered around financial investments.
This to me is a key difference. BH is a great place with a lot of helpful people about investing and financial planning, but they are *very* strict about remaining on topic there.
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:35 PM   #11
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Bogleheads list it's membership as just shy of 30,000. With that many you'd think there would be a huge diversity of investing styles. But there is a sort of unwritten bias that tends to be enforced by some decent and unfortunately also some intolerant types.

I think the basic methods they preach are pretty decent such as low cost funds/ETF's and reduced or no timing. Unfortunately things are taken too far and this results in people not getting to really hear about other investment methods. There is too much intolerance IMO. I'd like to see a section which allows more free form ideas but am not holding my breath on that one.

What you do see is a certain amount of confusion at big market turns (like the discussions in the fall of 2008). And plenty of amusing ways of doing rebalancing with lots of carefully thought out plans about 1% shift ideas - sort of the sexy part of Bogleheads.
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:51 PM   #12
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Bogleheads list it's membership as just shy of 30,000. With that many you'd think there would be a huge diversity of investing styles. But there is a sort of unwritten bias that tends to be enforced by some decent and unfortunately also some intolerant types.
Unwritten bias? The site is based on a very well defined philosophy Bogleheads® investment philosophy - Bogleheads.

It's sort of like saying there's an unwritten bias toward early retirement here. It's not unwritten at all, it's a founding principle. Some members here are intolerant of work.

Nothing wrong with either, they are what they are...
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:25 PM   #13
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I find the Bogleheads to have much sharper elbows than most folks here.
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:08 PM   #14
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I am members of both also. I found that during the accumulation stage Boglehead was a great help in organizing and simplifying our portfolio. As we got closer to ER, early-retirement was particularly helpful in thinking thru the exit strategy and ensuring we had thought of everything prior to pulling the plug. Now that we are retired, I find that the topics on the ER forum more in sync with our lifestyle. However, I still check in on Bogleheads now-and-then on financial topics.
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:16 PM   #15
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Unwritten bias? The site is based on a very well defined philosophy Bogleheads® investment philosophy - Bogleheads.

It's sort of like saying there's an unwritten bias toward early retirement here. It's not unwritten at all, it's a founding principle. Some members here are intolerant of work.

Nothing wrong with either, they are what they are...
That is a nice link Midpack as it does express the Boglehead general philosophy. But just because some choose to write this stuff does not mean that 30,000 members agree with all of it all the time. There is no requirement to sign a pledge on this stuff.

For instance, I personally do not think "stay the course" applies to my investments all the time -- a major deviation from that link. If I were to discuss some of this there it would have to be couched in very obtuse language or I'd get lots of grief from intolerant investors there. I can live with this as I'd just as soon not get into unpleasant discussions. It's the snide or just nasty remarks that I have trouble with -- there or here.

You cannot even discuss a bond active fund like PTTRX. Lots of snide remarks about Bill Gross and by implication the poster who mentions PTTRX in positive fashion. It's a bit too much. Or if you had a position in Vanguard Small Cap Growth Index (I don't at the moment) and wanted to discuss it, you'd also probably get lots of ugly remarks.

It's the nasty intolerant types I have trouble with. But that's social media for you I guess. Bogleheads is better then most of the investment sites out there and there is a fair amount of civility too.

Had to get this off my chest.
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:51 PM   #16
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A member of both yet only participate in this forum. While the Bogleheads promote simplicity there a lot of nit picking about standard deviations slice and dice, tilting etc. I discovered early on that a simple portfolio with a planned asset allocation was right for me. The irony of it all is that if you are a true Boglehead there's not much to say on the forum.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:10 PM   #17
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Half of the folks who post at BH are physicians. The other half are mostly well-educated.

ER place has a more blue-collar feel to it with folks trying to retire on the minimal amount of money possible. At BH, folks will retire very wealthy or perhaps not at all.

As for investment advice, both places end up with about the same advice, although there are more folks here who love Wellesley.

As for intolerance, that doesn't bother me in the least. There is plenty at both sites. I think it makes me think about decisions. One may think, "I don't need to justify my decisions to anyone." That's true, but if you put them out for comment, you should not expect everyone to tell you that your decisions were great. What's the point of having all "yes men" or sycophants echoing your decisions. (I looked up sycophants and it means "ass kissers".)
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #18
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...(snip)...
As for intolerance, that doesn't bother me in the least. There is plenty at both sites. I think it makes me think about decisions. One may think, "I don't need to justify my decisions to anyone." That's true, but if you put them out for comment, you should not expect everyone to tell you that your decisions were great. What's the point of having all "yes men" or sycophants echoing your decisions. (I looked up sycophants and it means "ass kissers".)
I do not expect total agreement either. In fact, seeing the other side of a thought is a good thing. The problem for me is the lack of civility in expressing an opposing viewpoint.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:39 AM   #19
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For those who are members of both forums, what do you think are the main differences and similarities between the two ?
For a while here I was considering organizing an E-R.org wiki, but the Bogleheads have done a fine job with that project.

I can't keep up with the posting volume over there. This board has maybe 50 threads updated per day, and a slow day over there could easily exceed 100 threads. The detail & volume of information is greater than this board without necessarily being better. Lots of "I think" and "Here's what I did" without as much thoughtful dialogue as this board.

However their moderation seems much harsher, and a few of their members have had multiple humorectomies. I participate in a few of their military-themed threads but I hesitate to mention the book over there.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:57 AM   #20
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I also have been a member in years past. I can remember when it was almost a completely different forum, with lot's less people and, (at least to me)...a better forum design as compared to now. I look at it like seeing a small town town grow into a big city. It's been so long, (years?), that I am not sure if my login even works now. I may give it a try, later.

What I like here is more the small town atmosphere, the looseness...(that is, more freedom to express other ideas and not get chewed up too bad). Actually, I enjoy a thread that sometimes gets off subject onto other stuff. That's how we learn in real life, too. And there's more to life than just money. Did I mention we have a great zoo here in Columbia, SC? Well, they just got some new baby Komodo dragons that...
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