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Old 08-14-2012, 10:48 AM   #61
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I'll toss in a war story of my own. Back when I was just a young teen, my parents had friends who were millionaires. This was back in the 60's when a million dollars was actually worth a million dollars - a nice home, travel, good food, etc, and no need for an alarm clock. They never had kids because 'children are to expensive'. They drove an old beater VW bug. When we had family/friends potlucks, they either brought nothing or a few miserable cookies or pieces of fruit. The husband died in his early 70's of a stroke. Within a few years the wife went crazy and was sent to a mental hospital. Thye had no wills (lawyers are crooks) and no heirs. The state of California got all their money.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:49 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
Hi Texas Proud, interesting comments. I should add that the X-Axis extra dollars between each set of arrows would pay for a very nice vacation for us. So maybe the bad time consequences would not be that big between the black dashed arrow and red, but the lifestyle issues are immediate.

I'm wondering if this would be a good thing to put in a poll here? Any thoughts?

Sure, run a poll.... I bet most will go with the 95%...

Since this is all backtested and we do not know what the future holds, there is really no 100%... say you were a rich French landowner who thought he was good to go just before the French revolution....

Even more recent is some of the South American countries who had high inflation.... with the way our debt is going, it is not out of the question that we could have it here...

I would rather live a little bit better today and make necessary adjustments than have a very big boatload of money when I die... take a look at some of the ending values of the 95%.... some are pretty nice aren't they
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:57 AM   #63
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These "frugality" threads always stir up a lively discussion. Once people develop frugal habits over a long period of saving for FI, it seems some have difficulty loosening the purse strings once retired. Often the discussion centers around what kind of car they drive(BMW's usually cited as the biggest waste of money imaginable), or how they travel, or if they dine out, etc. I know people who continue to save money in retirement but I don't get it. After all you can only do two things with money-spend it or give it away. I have been very fortunate and now find myself quite wealthy but it wasn't always this way. As I realized my wealth was building, I gradually spent more. Wasn't that difficult (along the lines mentioned by Ha). My spending would be very high by most measures. No one has ever called my frugal, at least for a long time. Could I spend more? You bet! Do I worry about it? Nope. Once retired LBYM doesn't make much sense to me. Obviously you need to live within your means. Frugality, IMHO, is simply a means to FI. Once you make FI how you spend you money depends on your tastes and personal utility function. I don't view frugality as a moral issue but rather a prctical technique that can be very useful at certain times of your life. I suspect others here may have a different opinion.
I would describe your situation Danmer, as one who "has a healthy relationship with money". That should be the ultimate goal for everyone. After I get a few more bucks stashed away in my reserves, I hope to be there, too!
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:27 PM   #64
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Have to mention LWYM to DW. I'm sure I'll get a puzzled look.

We are talking about going to England, Wales and Scotland next year too. How long are you going to be going for Alan? Got to make sure we keep up with the Alan's .
We have to arrive in England for a wedding on April 20 and we are currently planning to return on September 3rd. We'll be spending 2 weeks in France plus another week in Kent on the way back with DW's sister and husband who live in Edinburgh so we won't be going to Edinburgh this time. However, we have friends on the west coast of Scotland in Ayr that we plan on seeing so Scotland will also be on the itinerary.

All of May will be in Ireland.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:24 AM   #65
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I would describe your situation Danmer, as one who "has a healthy relationship with money". That should be the ultimate goal for everyone. After I get a few more bucks stashed away in my reserves, I hope to be there, too!
I am not sure what a healthy relationship would entail, but thanks. We certainly do enjoy our lives. I agree that money doesn't buy happiness, but it doesn't buy unhappiness either.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:31 PM   #66
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I agree with earlier posters that one can always spend more money, and can still get some incremental hedonistic returns. That is true unless one is up in the stratospheric wealth class of the billionaires.

I am not sure what Bill Gates or Warren Buffet would spend more money on (how can they spend 3.5%WR of their stash?), but as I am so far below that level, I would not or should not have problems spending more than I do right now. For example, I can't afford to fly 1st class, take a limousine to/from the airport, or to always stay in fancy hotels downtown, drink $1000 bottles of Cognac, or cook with $400 tiny bottles of balsamic vinegar. If you think I do not know how to spend more, just give me some money and watch me!

I would need to have a whole lot more just to enjoy the aforementioned privileges, let alone dreaming of new ones. So, I am not at all frugal, not anymore since I am living off assets now, and may be living right at my means already. In fact, I am not even sure how much I can really spend from my assets, not knowing what investment return is going to be in the years ahead.

So, I have to ration the pleasures that my limited money can buy. Without any other evidence to the contrary, I have to accept the 3.5%WR as the limit of my means. Hence I am not at all frugal.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:05 PM   #67
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I am not sure what Bill Gates or Warren Buffet would spend more money on (how can they spend 3.5%WR of their stash?)
Bill Gates has been flushing some of his stash down the toilet.

BBC News - Bill Gates looks to new toilets to improve world sanitation

Quote:
His charitable organisation, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, is looking for future loos that can improve sanitation around the world.
At the Reinvent the Toilet fair, hosted at the foundation's Seattle campus this week, designs included a lavatory that used microwave energy to turn excrement into electricity.

and more info here:

Bill Gates challenges scientists to reinvent toilet - Telegraph

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To pass the foundation's threshold for the world's next lavatory, it must operate without running water, electricity or a septic system, not discharge pollutants, preferably capture energy or other resources, and operate at a cost of 5 cents a day.

The United Nations estimates disease caused by unsafe sanitation results in about half the hospitalisation in the developing world. About 1.5 million children die each year from diarrheal disease.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:35 PM   #68
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I am really curious to see if it is really energy or fiscally efficient to cook waste with microwave, then to use the dried "good" to generate electricity. Think of all the fancy equipment that needs to be build and maintained.

I recently read a book by a Malawian whose village is so poor that people lives would be much improved if they only get a solar panel to run an electric water pump for irrigation. That would save them much labor to trek down to a lake to fetch water for their crop, and it would also improve the yield. Low tech beats fancy schmancy high tech as far as I am concerned.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:49 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I'll toss in a war story of my own. Back when I was just a young teen, my parents had friends who were millionaires. This was back in the 60's when a million dollars was actually worth a million dollars - a nice home, travel, good food, etc, and no need for an alarm clock. They never had kids because 'children are to expensive'. They drove an old beater VW bug. When we had family/friends potlucks, they either brought nothing or a few miserable cookies or pieces of fruit. The husband died in his early 70's of a stroke. Within a few years the wife went crazy and was sent to a mental hospital. Thye had no wills (lawyers are crooks) and no heirs. The state of California got all their money.
Talk about frugal to a fault!
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