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View Poll Results: If an intruder entered your home what would you do?
Shoot 62 39.74%
Wish I had a firearm so I could shoot 20 12.82%
Call police and hide (outside if you're feeling lucky...) 27 17.31%
Hand over my valuables and hope the intruder goes away 9 5.77%
Don't know 7 4.49%
While looking over barrel of S&W-Ask "Have You Given Much Thought To Early Retirement? - Well Have Ya Punk?" 18 11.54%
Try Out Moves Just Learned in &quotiscovering Karate" class 2 1.28%
Sneak Up On Him And Yell In His Ear 0 0%
Sneak Up On Him And Kiss Him On His Ear 0 0%
Ask Dog To Show Him Out 7 4.49%
Shake spouse awake and say "Greg, Greg, I hear something" 2 1.28%
Walk Up To Him And Say In A Wide-eyed Intimidatingly Scary Mysterious Foreign Accent - Heh, Want To Pull My Finger, Mister? 1 0.64%
Show Him Your Pumpkins 1 0.64%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 08:55 AM   #61
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrinch
Sorry, my bad. I didn't realize you were going to go through an interview process to get out all the facts before firing. Good for you!
Hmmmm.....

So I take it your position (clearly) is that I should be prohibited from having deadly force to use within my home to defend myself (the most basic of all human rights, BTW - self defense within your own abode) because:

a) either the intruder will just be an innocuous irritant without malevolent intent and I will likely shoot too soon, or else,
b) I will be unable to detect the threat timely, and will therefore not be able to act in a way so as to prevent harm to myself?


Yes.... I see. Although I don't agree, of course.

The fact some idiots having a lack of sense, insufficient training and experience, might go out and plow their cars into stop signs, houses, people, or other cars, and may even be even while drunk or exhibiting other poor judgment while doing so, means to your way of thinking that no citizen should have a car; is that pretty much your thinking on that topic as well?

Or, is it just firearms with you that are evil? And based on how well you see it working in your travels to various less safe countries, perhaps you advocate the disarming of the citizenry in the US -- to make us safer for the government to manage our affairs for us?

I sense that's another area you and I would not reach an accommodation. I'm willing to leave it at that, but you keep on giving me argument if you like, and I'll respond.

Have you ever even shot a firearm? One of your posts mentioned that you enjoyed flying for the sense of freedom, and for the need to concentrate, and that gave you some sense of satisfaction. Guess what? Taking a .22 down to the range, and poking some holes in a paper plate can give you the same feeling -- relaxation, concentration, breath control, etc.

It is clear that you know nothing of the four rules I stated. For instance, the first one you apparently misinterpreted to mean "Keep yer guns all full up with ammo at all times, boys!" The real meaning of course, is that each gun should be treated as if it were loaded, in terms of safe handling, not aiming it at anything, etc. Think of all the morons you hear about in 'cleaning' accidents on 'empty' guns. Those people likely never attended a basic firearms course, and are otherwise idiots, as well.

Same with rule two -- I suspect you read that to mean - "find a target! Point the gun! Use the gun!" It's real meaning, of course, to those who know, is do not EVER point the weapon at anything you do not wish to destroy. It speaks to the awesome power of the tool, not to encouraging it's indiscriminate use! In other words, if you are in the living room and point a revolver at the TeeVee, consider it gone (see rule #1 - it's always to be considered loaded). I grew up around guns all my life, and those who know, take these rules very seriously and in the proper context, just as the training makes evident.

I would even recommend a basic firearms safety course for you, even if you don't own or want to own one; it might do wonders for your attitude, understanding, and respect for firearms. You might even find a rewarding new hobby, and meet a bunch of non-stereotypical new friends, WHILE you expand your understanding beyond pat smug ignorant liberal clap-trap.


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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 09:24 AM   #62
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
The daughter's boyfriend, probably won't break anything or pick the lock.
You're quite fortunate that I didnt date your daughter...on several fronts
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 10:22 AM   #63
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
You're quite fortunate that I didnt date your daughter...on several fronts
I'm quite fortunate.....I don't have a daughter.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 10:24 AM   #64
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

That sure would have made the time spent defeating locks, jimmying doors and climbing up to second story windows a big waste of time.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 11:21 AM   #65
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

I didn't see anyone refer to this story, but last week in rural Minnesota farm country, an intruder broke into a farmhome. The owner confronted him with a shotgun, a fight broke out and the homeowner ended up getting killed by his own gun. Then the intruder reloaded and shot his wife & son "accidently" according to his statement.

This is a very difficult situation, I think of the times in my mis-spent youth when I snuck back into the house when my folks didn't know I was gone. I sure wouldn't have wanted my dad meeting me with his Winchester. I also remember going to friend's houses and their parents didn't know we were coming in the house.

I am a firearms instructor and am very capable with my guns, I have to say I would have an extremely hard time pulling the trigger until I identified the intruder and felt they were a threat to me or my family's well being. I sure wouldn't follow anyone once the immediate threat was over.

On a financial note, I can't imagine the lawsuits that would follow. I seriously doubt your personal liability or umbrella policies would provide any coverage for an intentional act like this.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 12:02 PM   #66
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty Pockets
I didn't see anyone refer to this story, but last week in rural Minnesota farm country, an intruder broke into a farmhome. The owner confronted him with a shotgun, a fight broke out and the homeowner ended up getting killed by his own gun. Then the intruder reloaded and shot his wife & son "accidently" according to his statement.
I don't have the statistics on how often a firearm is used in defense to good effect, versus those stories that the press loves to trot out, such as the one you reference. Putting that aside, and just looking at individual cases, the most important thing about either having a weapon in the home, or carrying one (if you chose to get a CCW permit) is that you must be both prepared and trained to use it. But that is not enough. You must also be willing to use it, you must think through the terrible and awesome thing it means to use it, and be ready, or else you should not have one, because it will indeed be used against you when you hesitate in a circumstance where someone is advancing to take it.

Quote:
I am a firearms instructor and am very capable with my guns, I have to say I would have an extremely hard time pulling the trigger until I identified the intruder and felt they were a threat to me or my family's well being.
I think anyone sensible would. That is why I get disgusted when people talk about shooting spouses, friends, and others who could reasonably be expected to be out and about at odd hours.

Quote:
I sure wouldn't follow anyone once the immediate threat was over.
In Florida, if you do so, you could become a felon. Eliminate the threat, call the police.

Quote:
On a financial note, I can't imagine the lawsuits that would follow. I seriously doubt your personal liability or umbrella policies would provide any coverage for an intentional act like this.
Here you lose me. You mean the guy who broke in, overcame the owner, and then offed the entire family with the shotgun? I expect that if I should ever be cast into a position to use my firearm in my home, the law (and a jury of peers if it comes to that) will be protection enough for me. Of course, one should consider that your actions might be viewed in the worst possible light if a shooting does occur. All the more reason to be trained, know the law, and be able to exercise good judgment, or else do not have the weapon at all.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 01:38 PM   #67
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

The lawsuit threat I was thinking of would be if I used deadly force on an intruder armed with a knife, baseball bat or squirt gun with a black hood rummaging through my sock drawer while I'm half asleep.

There was a case in Minneapolis a few months ago where an older man killed a crackhead that broke into his house. The kid was unarmed, the old man shot him, he ran a ways and died. It took quite a few days before law enforcement cleared him of criminal charges, I can only guess the civil suit that will follow.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 01:53 PM   #68
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?


Anyone know where to get training to use a gun, in this case a shotgun?

I got it -- 12 gauge Mossberg -- and the practice shells and the 00 buckshot.

Just need me a few lessons someplace.... 8)

My cop acquaintances helped me decide what to get. One cop referred me to the NRA, but their closest training place is too far away (Long Island).

Buying it was prompted by being in a situation where I needed it.

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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 02:07 PM   #69
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Kate,
A shot gun is probably a good choice. You may want to research the type of ammunition to use. 00 Buckshot is can be a powerfull load, travel revatively far and good penetration. If you live in a densely populated area others could be hit. I'm no expert; that is why I'm suggesting you do some research.

If there is a high end gun shop or range near by you could ask them if there is a NRA trained instructor near by. Police officer trainers sometimes do part time training.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 02:23 PM   #70
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Thanks Dex. It's solely for use in a remote area of a nearby state when I'm there alone. Acres of space bordering a national forest. Somebody showed up last time.

I live most of the time in a city and I have no intention of using it here. Police are 2 minutes away and I like those chances better.

Chief investigator recommended the ammo. My intention is to aim the gun at the bedroom door and shoot if it opens. It will help me hold my own for the hour it takes the state police to get to the remote place. Better off with it than without it, anyway.

I like your suggestion re asking someone at the gun shop. I bought the gun at Dick's, but I got the ammo at the most stunning store I have ever been in...... I didn't stay long because they snickered at the small amount of stuff I was buying. I think I'll just go back with my question, since it's on a road I travel often.

Thanks again.

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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 02:56 PM   #71
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

What happened last time, Kate? How did you get rid of the "somebody"?
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 03:02 PM   #72
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty Pockets
The owner confronted him with a shotgun, a fight broke out and the homeowner ended up getting killed by his own gun. Then the intruder reloaded and shot his wife & son "accidently" according to his statement.
If the intruder was willing to kill the rest of the family with the old man's shotgun, then he probably would have been willing to kill them with any object (or even his bare hands) if there was no gun ever present to begin with.

It just amazes me of the number of people on this board that assume that 99.99999% of intruders are just interested in stealing the family jewels, a laptop computer, and maybe CFB's set o wheels....and just leave everyone else completely alone. Sure, MANY intruders don't want any violence to erupt, and would probably never harm you - but, to me, that's a pretty gutsy proposition.

If someone is desperate enough to break into my abode, I'm assuming that they'll stop at nothing to get what they want (whatever it is) - including taking my life. In response, I'll stop at nothing to protect my life and the life of those that are in my house. The alarm will scare off the 'harmless' thieves, but the next level of security is needed for those that aren't scared off by Level 1.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 03:49 PM   #73
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
The daughter's boyfriend, probably won't break anything or pick the lock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
I'm quite fortunate.....I don't have a daughter.
Your second post wasn't necessary-- we could already tell from your first post that you weren't raising a teenage girl in your house... and we're also beginning to wonder what the heck kind of teenager you were, too!
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 04:41 PM   #74
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

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Originally Posted by DRiP Guy
Hmmmm.....

So I take it your position (clearly) is that I should be prohibited from having deadly force to use within my home to defend myself (the most basic of all human rights, BTW - self defense within your own abode) because: etc, etc...
Nice attempt to read my position, but not close. My position is that I keep myself and my family away from dangerous things and circumstances if I don't deem that their benefit is greater than their risk. Weapons, criminals, dangerous animals, chemicals, etc. I've got nothing against people owning and using guns, and grew up owning and using them myself. I got rid of all my guns when my first daughter began to walk, as I decided that, education notwithstanding, the risk and consequences of an accidental shooting in my house were not worth the relaxation value that they afforded me. Some people share this view with me and others don't...I'm okay with that.

As far as using deadly force in the case of a break-in...if I determine that the assailant seriously threatens the safety of my family or me, I'm certainly in favor of using it if necessary. Not having a gun in the house and readily available for this use is a risk that I am willing to take, however. I feel that the risk to a curious neighbor kid or to a nosy babysitter or incautious house cleaner outweighs the low chance that I might ever need and be able to make ready a firearm for defensive purposes in the case of a break-in. Again, I'm okay with others feeling differently about this, but I do hope that they go through some sort of "interview" process before pulling the trigger in their houses. You'll note that this is what police do, even in the most trigger-happy cop shows. Killing an intruder in your house without first trying to find out who they are and get rid of them some other way may be legal, but in my opinion is not the right thing to do. Say it is clap-trap if you like.

Listen, the four rules from your first post weren't especially well fleshed out. I did read rule 1 to say that you think all guns should be kept loaded. My bad again. I see that the rules are shorthand for the same rules I learned in handling weapons when I was young. I also see from subsequent posts that you are serious about gun safety. Great. I am too. My version of gun safety today is to keep them away from my family and everyone else in my house.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 04:56 PM   #75
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

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Originally Posted by scrinch
Nice attempt to read my position, but not close.

Not having a gun in the house and readily available for this use is a risk that I am willing to take, however. I feel that the risk to a curious neighbor kid or to a nosy babysitter or incautious house cleaner outweighs the low chance that I might ever need and be able to make ready a firearm for defensive purposes in the case of a break-in.
Thanks for your respectful reply. I apologize that my own was not as similarly free from bluster. It sounds like you have thought things through and made choices that are the best for you and yours, and I should not have inferred with as little foundation as I chose to do.

Best wishes.



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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 05:01 PM   #76
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

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Originally Posted by Laurence
What happened last time, Kate? How did you get rid of the "somebody"?

Last thing I did was stare in pure anger and say "**** YOU."

I'll tell you more after I can make it funny.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 05:10 PM   #77
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRiP Guy
Thanks for your respectful reply. I apologize that my own was not as similarly free from bluster. It sounds like you have thought things through and made choices that are the best for you and yours, and I should not have inferred with as little foundation as I chose to do.

Best wishes.
Best wishes to you, too. Let's hope that no one here ever again has to find out what they would really do in a break-in. This is one of those subjects, like religion and politics, that can lead to misunderstandings pretty quickly, huh?
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-10-2007, 08:34 PM   #78
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

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Originally Posted by Nords
Your second post wasn't necessary-- we could already tell from your first post that you weren't raising a teenage girl in your house... and we're also beginning to wonder what the heck kind of teenager you were, too!
One who was let in by the daughter.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 10:25 AM   #79
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

It works out way better if you tap on her 3rd story window while gesturing at the bottle of booze you're holding.

The problem with all of this is that statistically the odds of someone successfully defending themselves or their home with a gun is implausibly low. For the most part the gun is unreachable, cant be loaded in time, the target is missed or the gun is stolen/used against the owner.

The real problem is that everyone thinks they're the outlier to these stats.

As a conservative, former gun owner and former range instructor (for 8 year olds shooting .22's...try that for a while...), i'm all for every reasonable, well trained person to own a firearm for home protection.

The problems usually arise in the 'reasonable' and 'well trained' departments.

All of this isnt helped by the wide publication of the handful of times people successfully dirty harry an intruder.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 11:24 AM   #80
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny

...statistically the odds of someone successfully defending themselves or their home with a gun is implausibly low.
Some stats at link below. Accurate data on defensive use of firearms is difficult to find, due to the emotionally and politically charged nature of the topic, and each person's bias seems to be buttressed by their [selective] recollection of those news reports of incidents favorable to their preordained views. We often talk about the emotional nature of investing, this topic is more so, I think.

I do agree that for home defense readiness it is of no practical use to have gun in one area, bullets in another, both under lock and key in some out of the way area.

But, I must further agree that in homes with children, or other family members not trained/competent in the use of the weapon, it is a conundrum: I myself, of course, would not put them in danger by having a gun loaded & at the ready that could lead to a mishap.

(One of the advantages of being a single guy living alone, I suppose. )

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