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View Poll Results: If an intruder entered your home what would you do?
Shoot 62 39.74%
Wish I had a firearm so I could shoot 20 12.82%
Call police and hide (outside if you're feeling lucky...) 27 17.31%
Hand over my valuables and hope the intruder goes away 9 5.77%
Don't know 7 4.49%
While looking over barrel of S&W-Ask "Have You Given Much Thought To Early Retirement? - Well Have Ya Punk?" 18 11.54%
Try Out Moves Just Learned in &quotiscovering Karate" class 2 1.28%
Sneak Up On Him And Yell In His Ear 0 0%
Sneak Up On Him And Kiss Him On His Ear 0 0%
Ask Dog To Show Him Out 7 4.49%
Shake spouse awake and say "Greg, Greg, I hear something" 2 1.28%
Walk Up To Him And Say In A Wide-eyed Intimidatingly Scary Mysterious Foreign Accent - Heh, Want To Pull My Finger, Mister? 1 0.64%
Show Him Your Pumpkins 1 0.64%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 11:31 AM   #81
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

I didnt see any attribution for how those stats were collected, so I have very little trust in them.

Not that long ago, one of the stats being thrown around was that more kids drowned in a bucket of water than were killed by accidental handgun discharge. On reading actual statistical data gathered by more neutral parties, it turned out that more Filipino children living in america were killed by handguns than all children who drowned in a bucket.

But I guess thats close enough...

You're also relying on peoples testimony as to what happened to create a lot of these stats. See the "Whose truth?" thread for more info on the reliability of that testimony.

What sounds better when the cops show up: "I pulled out my gun and the #%$!@er ran like the chickenshit bastard that he was!" or "I was looking for my box of ammunition when the guy heard me rummaging around and I ran out in the living room, fell over the kids tricycle and the guy had to leave because he was laughing too hard"

By the way, before anyone takes any of this stuff serious, shoves a missile in their backside and tries to aim themselves at me, this is all just in fun...
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 12:13 PM   #82
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Wow, I have 1 rifle in my house (for shooting bunnies by the way and other vermin ) and would never keep it loaded, let alone in arms reach ...My fear of somebody accidentally shooting themselves is much higher than my fear of the great hoards invading my house....
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 12:26 PM   #83
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Take your best shot maddy...i'm a quick l'il bunny...
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 01:02 PM   #84
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
I didnt see any attribution for how those stats were collected, so I have very little trust in them.

Sorry, someone looking at the url could have sussed it out, but I should have made it clear and stated it. My bad.

Source: Gary, Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1, Table 4.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html



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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 01:56 PM   #85
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Oh I saw the source, but there wasnt a direct footnote to any of the methodology and I was too lazy to look.

After looking through the methodology for this particular study, its interesting. They have issues with all the other gun studies done, then proceed to commit some of the most horrifying offenses as far as statistics gathering and data reporting. I mean...this study could barely be twisted any further towards producing a specific result.

Basically they called people at random, oversampled on male gun owners, then asked them if they used it in the last 5 years for a defensive purpose ("uhh...no...i've had this thing for 5 years and danged if I can think of one time I used it for anything"). They then make some claims about sample size and and sampling errors that are laughable at best.

Then they spend a considerable time trying to discern the mystery of the huge delta between what was reported to them and measurable reported data (you know, like why 800k guys said they shot someone and there werent 800k people with holes in them showing up at the hospital) without ever considering the most basic reason: their subjects were exaggerating, misremembered the facts, or were lying.

I guess the most simplistic example of why the methodology is questionable is this: if someone heard a noise in their garage or yard, grabbed their gun, and investigated the noise to find that it was not a threat, they might report this as a successful use of a gun to defend their property. Realistically, the guy could have been holding a frozen waffle and that would have been just as effective a defensive tool...

The really interesting and telling piece from the methodology had to do with associations. Several other prior executors of other studies agreed to work with this study's creators. The study creators proceeded to "like" the studies created by their agreed collaborators while demeaning the studies performed by people who didnt agree to work with them. So in other words, they liked and agreed with people who agreed with them.

In a really entertaining twist, when unable to correlate their findings with actual police reports and other data, the study creators decided that THIS was the time their surveyed individuals might be developing a bit of deception. Once again, when the data is agreeable, its good. When its not, well, that was when the lying began.

Lots of funny business in these sorts of matters, some conscious and some not and a highly polarized emotional situation where I imagine most of the people who get involved already have an agenda and bias. I suspect the real data and reasonable decisions that could me made from that real data is probably unattainable.

But its putting me in the mood for a poll...
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 02:33 PM   #86
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

I like this quote from Tom Smith regarding the “war” over statistics between the two sides of the Gun Defense Use debate:
Quote:
"Neither side seems to be willing to give ground or see their opponents' point of view. This is unfortunate since there is good reason to believe that both sides are off-the-mark. . .”
If you spend some time looking at the numbers that either side throws out you will find misrepresentations galore. I won’t even try to enter that debate.

Personally, I think using statistics in this argument is folly. Who cares what the rate of accidental firearm deaths is if a member of your family is a victim. On the other side of the issue, who cares what the rate of gun ownership is, or how successful the average American is in using a gun to defend himself if it’s 3 a.m. in your living room and you find yourself between a hostile intruder and your family.

Trying to extrapolate what’s going to happen to you from statistics derived from a population of 300 million people is foolish.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 02:35 PM   #87
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny

... its putting me in the mood for a poll...
Poll away!

Quote:
U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics

Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime Data Brief

Guns and Crime: Handgun Victimization, Firearm Self-Defense, and
Firearm Theft

April 1994, NCJ-147003

Revised 9/24/02 th

Full text with tables available from:
Bureau of Justice Statistics Clearinghouse
800-732-3277 (fax number for report orders and mail list signup
only: 410-792-4358)
Box 6000
Annapolis Junction, MD. 20701-0179

By Michael R. Rand, BJS Statistician

...


On average in 1987-92 about 83,000 crime victims per year used a
firearm to defend themselves or their property. Three-fourths of
the victims who used a firearm for defense did so during a violent
crime; a fourth, during a theft, household burglary, or motor
vehicle theft.

Handguns and crime, 1987-92

Annual
average,
1992 1987-91
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Handgun crimes 930,700 667,000
Homicide 13,200 10,600
Rape 11,800 14,000
Robbery 339,000 225,100
Assault 566,800 417,300

Note: Detail may not add to total because of rounding. Data for
homicide come from the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft.txt
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 02:45 PM   #88
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Excellent points and I agree with Mr Smith (if thats his REAL name...)

However, there is a problem created when people "buy into" one end or the other of these two lumps of bad stats and either decides to get or not get a gun based on the bad data.

I think that people who live in high crime areas, in very rural areas, drive expensive cars through areas known for carjacking, or walk around downtown with large wads of cash taped to their jacket...should get a gun, get trained in using it, practice with it, and keep it away from their kids.

People who buy a gun, have little training, dont practice with it, and leave it sitting in a drawer around their 5 year old? I think THAT person is the big threat.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 02:46 PM   #89
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

I'm not sure how much interest I have in adding more info on this, or digging up more statistics... I agree it is a fool's errand, when the decisions one needs to make are of a very personal nature.

One thing I will offer, that I have known since I was child but many adults apparently do not know -- Your defense in is your own hands. The police and the courts can seek to identify, find and prosecute a criminal AFTER the fact, but you are accountable for your safety, and that has been confirmed in many venues, at many levels of the courts and the government.

Quote:
...New York State’s highest court ruled in 1968 that a victim who was attacked after seeking police protection to no avail had no right to protection. The court refused to create such a right, saying it would impose a crushing economic burden on the government.

...The Supreme Court held in an 1856 case that local law enforcement officers had a general duty to enforce laws, not to protect a particular person.

...In 1982, a federal court of appeals said:. . . [T]here is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators, but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteen Amendment or, we suppose, any other provision of the Constitution. The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties: it tells the state to let people alone, it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order.

These rulings are probably consistent with the original intent of the founding fathers. Some legal scholars argue that the framers of the U.S. Constitution assumed that law-abiding people would largely be responsible for their own safety.

"Courts have ruled that government does not have a specific duty to protect individuals."

http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s181/s181d.html
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 02:50 PM   #90
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Also a very good point and something few people know.

We had a little incident near here a few years ago where a guy who was injured in a car accident walked off the scene with a head injury and eventually fell from an overpass and died.

The courts ruled that police officers on the scene who saw him wander off were not liable for his death because they had no specific "duty" to protect his safety. One of the deciding factors was the supreme court case you mentioned.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 03:04 PM   #91
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Excellent points and I agree with Mr Smith (if thats his REAL name...)
CFB, I would never bs you baby!

Quote:
Tom W. Smith is an internationally recognized expert in survey research specializing in the study of social change and survey methodology.
http://experts.uchicago.edu/experts.php?id=174

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Excellent points and I agree with Mr Smith (if thats his REAL name...)

However, there is a problem created when people "buy into" one end or the other of these two lumps of bad stats and either decides to get or not get a gun based on the bad data.

I think that people who live in high crime areas, in very rural areas, drive expensive cars through areas known for carjacking, or walk around downtown with large wads of cash taped to their jacket...should get a gun, get trained in using it, practice with it, and keep it away from their kids.

People who buy a gun, have little training, dont practice with it, and leave it sitting in a drawer around their 5 year old? I think THAT person is the big threat.
DING! DING! DING! 8)
(except for the keep it away from the kids part. I like keep it away from the kids in general, but always teach them firearm safety and proper use)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRiP Guy
One thing I will offer, that I have known since I was child but many adults apparently do not know -- Your defense in is your own hands. The police and the courts can seek to identify, find and prosecute a criminal AFTER the fact, but you are accountable for your safety, and that has been confirmed in many venues, at many levels of the courts and the government.
DING! DING! DING! 8)
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 03:26 PM   #92
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Thats two separate, one dollar each royalty, on those trademarked "DING!"'s mister...

The 'mister smith, if thats your real name' refers to a time when I was approached outside a restaurant by two guys who wanted to know my name. A little set back by the incursion, I replied "Mister Smith...whats yours?".

After they finished processing my arrest for providing a false name to a police officer...my lawyer had a chat with the DA about the benefits of having the police actually identify themselves before questioning people.

Turns out there had been a break-in or something a block away from where I was standing and these two plain clothes fellas got a little ahead of themselves considering I was about a zero match for the suspect they were looking for.

After that my lawyer called me "mister smith...if thats your real name" for some time...

Its probably a good idea that I didnt have a gun on me at the time...
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 05:03 PM   #93
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?



I would have skipped this entire thread two months ago.......

I found myself in the only situation in which I would ever have a gun: in a remote area where police are an hour away. In the city where I am most of the time, I have no interest in the gun, which is locked and unloaded and unaccessible.

In the remote place, it will be loaded and under my bed each night I am there alone.

I checked all this out ahead of time with the chief investigator in the DA's office and the chief investigator in the local police, both top guys being the ones looking into all this. As soon as I voiced the idea of getting a gun for the remote place, there was no turning back. Everyone said it was a good idea. I was at that remote place today just for a day of skiing and wanted to stay the night, but one of my new friends (DA investigator) put the kabosh on that. He knew I didn't have the training on the gun yet and would be leaving it home. Don't go until you can take that gun, he insisted, like he was my brother.

As I said before, living in the city, I like my chances better with the police doing the protecting and defending.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-11-2007, 06:21 PM   #94
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kate
As I said before, living in the city, I like my chances better with the police doing the protecting and defending.
It may very well be that your normal house in the city is safer than the remote spot, due to the nature of the "threat." But nobody should be under the impression that the police can protect you if there is an intruder in your house whether you are in the city or not.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-12-2007, 12:50 AM   #95
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

I believe there are some statistics on the best detterents for home intruders. I think #1 was a dog and #2 was an alarm system. I'm not here to infringe on anyone else's 2nd amendment rights, but I'd rather it not get to the point of facing down a guy over the barrel of a gun...
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-12-2007, 05:16 AM   #96
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
I believe there are some statistics on the best detterents for home intruders. I think #1 was a dog and #2 was an alarm system. I'm not here to infringe on anyone else's 2nd amendment rights, but I'd rather it not get to the point of facing down a guy over the barrel of a gun...
Great points, and I do think you are correct -- I have heard many times that having a dog, and/or having an *audible* (not a silent) alarm system are both effective deterrents to most burglars.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-12-2007, 08:02 AM   #97
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Most burglars are not willing to confront any type of resistance. That is why most, I'd venture to say about 90%, of all burglaries are committed when the occupant is not home. Of the few that occur when the occupant is home, most burglars thought the house was empty and as soon as they discover someone home they run. The remaining burglars/home invasion robbers, want the person to be home. That small percent are the ones to be concerned about. Those are also the ones where some kind of noise maker to alert the occupant that something is not right is the most helpful and desired. If they are alerted then they can call the police BEFORE the badguys get into the house, allowing for more time for officers to arrive and less for the badguy to do bad things.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-12-2007, 09:17 AM   #98
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

http://pollmeister.blogspot.com/2007...home-what.html
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-12-2007, 09:36 AM   #99
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Well lets look at that poll...I think I can carve that down to two options:

If an intruder entered your home, what would you do?

- Shoot him
- Do something wuss-like

What do you imagine people would answer? I'm surprised they only got 60%.

By the way, I think we should grab all people who answer "dont know" to a simple 5 question poll and whisk them away to an undisclosed location where they never interact with people or reproduce again.

The world would be a far better place.
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?
Old 02-12-2007, 12:37 PM   #100
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Re: If An Intruder Entered Your Home What Would You Do?

Quote:
By the way, I think we should grab all people who answer "dont know" to a simple 5 question poll and whisk them away to an undisclosed location where they never interact with people or reproduce again.

The world would be a far better place.
Hey, I think I'm catching on. That's CFB's sarcasm again, isn't it? For a minute there I took it seriously and was looking around for the other four questions!
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