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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-19-2006, 06:58 PM   #21
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

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Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
Understood.* But at no point should they become a victim and someone else the perpetrator as a result.
i thought i tore a rotor cuff swimming. the doctor said it was just arthritis. i said what can i do about that. he said "blame your mother."
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-19-2006, 07:22 PM   #22
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

There is also a virus that might also be playing a factor in the obesity epidemic.
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-19-2006, 07:42 PM   #23
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

I have set foot in a McDonalds since watching "Supersize Me". That was downright scary.
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-19-2006, 09:10 PM   #24
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

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Originally Posted by J-Lu
I have set foot in a McDonalds since watching "Supersize Me".* That was downright scary.*
Eric Schlosser's "Fast Food Nation" darned near turned me into a vegetarian. It was like reading Sinclair Lewis all over again.
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-19-2006, 11:01 PM   #25
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

I don't know whether I'd say the food industry is at "fault" for our obesity, and I don't go along with suing them, but they darned sure aren't helping anything.

Case in point - my local supermarket. I decided last June to get off the sugar altogether - no cakes, cookies, candy, ice cream, sickly-sweet yogurt, sugared cereal, sugary breads, etc. etc. Made a $200 bet with DB -- first to eat a banned item loses. So far so good - I've lost 10 lbs. (yay!) and haven't found a $200 dessert yet.

But that doesn't keep the supermarket from working to trip me up. I walk in the door and there are special tables full of the gooey dessert of the day, practically blocking the entrance. Same at the checkout before I leave. I head over for a gallon of nonfat milk and there's a rack of cookies to go with my beverage. I move on to the fruits and veggies for strawberries and lo... whipped cream and shortcake sharing the shelf. Cookies? Straight across from the meat section. Off to the frozen foods for some Weightwatchers lunches, and there, dangling from those little clips on the glass doors -- candy bars!! And right at child-seat height, too.

I manage to avoid all this temptation only to find a bakery worker rolling a tray full of fresh-baked cinnamon buns toward me (in the pharmacy section!) with free samples and boxes full of buns to add to my shopping cart. The last straw!!!!

"I manage to avoid the sugar you've laid out all over the store," I tell her, "only to find you chasing me down the aisles with the stuff!?!"

Next time y'all go to the grocery store notice just how many landmines they've set up for you. Then imagine (if it's not already the case) dragging two or more whining children with you -- children ready to make your life a living hell if they don't get sweets.

Again, I'm not saying we should take legal action -- just that we could consider being kind to those who struggle every day against those extra pounds and against an industry whose purpose is to sell as many calories as they possibly can.

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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-19-2006, 11:20 PM   #26
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

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Originally Posted by Caroline
I decided last June to get off the sugar altogether - no cakes, cookies, candy, ice cream, sickly-sweet yogurt, sugared cereal, sugary breads, etc. etc.
Yikes. How can life be worth living under those conditions? How would our bodies find the raw materials to make endorphins?

I'd rather practice tae kwon do three times a week and surf my butt off to "afford" ice cream. I'll eat low-cal yogurt. I'll give up bread. I might even (*whimper*) cut back on the beer a little. But no ice cream?!?
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-19-2006, 11:54 PM   #27
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

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Originally Posted by Nords
Yikes.* How can life be worth living under those conditions?
The answer is nuts and high-cocoa chocolate. Very little sugar, but lots of mmmm, mmmm, goodness.

I wonder if anybody has looked at the correlation of increased obesity and the FDA's dietary guidelines. It's been over 20 years now that the government has been telling us that fat is bad for us, and obesity rates increased significantly during that period. People take those guidelines seriously. In 1995, one study indicated that 65% of shoppers were looking for low-fat food products. Most low-fat food products just substitute sugar for fat. So, I suspect that our obsession with low-fat had at least something to do with people getting fatter.
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 12:55 AM   #28
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

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Originally Posted by dusk_to_dawn
One important part of the equation is exercise.* People are more sedentary today than in the past.*
I think this, along with portion size are the main changes.* I look at my own parents and in a lot of ways they eat like crap, definitely at least a few decades behind the times - full fat dairy, big pieces of meat, iceberg lettuce as a main veggie.* Nor do they go to a gym.* Yet, neither of them is fat because:

a) they walk everywhere.* Long walks after dinner, walks to the store, nature walks on the weekends. They also have jobs that require a little more activity than sitting behind a desk.

b) reasonable portions and limited snacking.* They're the type of people who when I go to visit I open up the cupboards and ask "where's all of your food?"* They buy just enough for their meals and that's about it.* *

Good genetics are not much of a factor as both of them are much thinner than their siblings, and I've also seen my father pack on the pounds when stress causes him to quit a or b.
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 02:47 AM   #29
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

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Originally Posted by wab
The answer is nuts and high-cocoa chocolate.* *Very little sugar, but lots of mmmm, mmmm, goodness.
Agree. I haven't eaten sugar of any type or form, or bread, or beer, or pizza, for almost 10 years. When I eat chocolate, which is close to daily, it's the 0 sugar Hershey's baking chocolate. At first it was a little much, but now I love it. My eating style was hard for maybe 6 months, especially giving up good French bread and good beer. But I've gotten 10 years older, and still look and feel about the same or even better. I almost never get hungry, at least in that gnawing almost panic inducing way that I formerly experienced. I wouldn't have done this except that it seemed a promising way to deal with emerging health issues, and it has indeed seemed to work well.

Other than sugar and concentrated carbs, I eat whatever else I want, including cream sauces, lots of omelets, cheeses, wine, steaks, liver, fish, as well as huge salads and Gargantuan servings of veggies. Whatever our government says to do, I pretty much do the opposite. I buy my olive oil at Trader Joe in 750 ml bottles, and I use 2 or more a month. Before TJs opened up here, I bought cases of 5 L. tins from an importer of Greek oil. I like it green and strong.

I remember my maternal grandfather-- he lived on butter and cream and lard and tallow. Before heading off in the morning to work, at age 80+, he'd eat bacon and sausage and eggs. He never was sick- one day at age 84, he miled his cows and fed his hogs, sat down on his cistern slab, and died.

So I don't know how I will fare, but I feel fairly sure that I have as good a chance on my peculiar diet as does someone following the latest government endorsed crap. And what I eat has the advantage of being absolutely and completely satisfying.

Only drawback is that it is an expensive way to eat.

Ha
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 03:59 AM   #30
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

thats like me sueing trojan the codndom company because the box says one size fits all and i find them way to big...now i have trauma
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 05:28 AM   #31
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

Is everyone missing the point that "fat" is not a pathology?!?

More fat = higher chance of survival, evolutionarily speaking. Some people are more efficient at fat-storing than others. This is an anomalous time in (American) human history when "fat" is seen as unhealthy, rather than a sign of well-being as it still is in much of the world -- a few decades out of hundreds of thousands of years. Come the apocalypse, the salad-eaters will be the first to check out.*

People are more or less hard-wired to crave foods that are high in sugar/fat/calories. We can work against this, just the way we can 'waterproof' our basements. It will be a continuous lifelong struggle for many to maintain a fashionable thinness, while being overly obsessed with weight has led to a huge increase in life-threatening eating disorders. There's also evidence to suggest that the more you diet, the harder your body's metabolism will work to be more efficient at wringing every calorie out of what you do consume.

Obesity is an American 'epidemic', yet Americans keep living longer and longer. Shouldn't they be keeling over at record rates? In the meantime the diet industry rakes in $40-50 billion annually in the US. (Dunno if that includes things like "Snackwells" and the potato chips with the fake fat that causes 'anal leakage'* ).

As far as "what you eat" is concerned.. I went from the typical American diet to the "mediterranean" diet. Practically no processed food. If I want something as simple as chicken soup I have to make it from scratch... We eat more fresh vegetables, more whole grains, more olive oil, near-zero "trans" fats. Guess what? After 2 1/2 years of this, we both still weigh exactly the same.

OTOH, I knew a guy in college who weighed about 130. He wanted to put on at least a few pounds and ate nothing but cheeseburgers, milkshakes, chocolate, fries.. the most high-calorie things he could find. Never a veg. in sight. Was completely sedentary and still is. 25 years later, he, too, weighs exactly the same! Makes me believe in the "setpoint" theory..

What we don't know about the human body would fill the Library of Congress, so I think it's premature to lay the blame at anyone's doorstep right now. (Though Caroline's supermarket story did give me the willies! -- "It wasn't my fault! I was run down by a donut trolley!")

If people are globally getting fatter, it's probably just due to the sheer availability and cheapness of high-calorie food. A couple of generations ago, food was a much larger budget item which may have had something to do with keeping people's underlying fat-storing tendencies from fully expressing themselves. People also had to do a heck of a lot more work in order to grow/purchase/prepare food.

I think a lot of the 'health risks' of being somewhat overweight (vs. grossly obese/400 lbs) will turn out to be bogus. It was only recently that margarine was the "healthy" alternative to butter. Now there are conflicting reports about salt and cholesterol, as well. The health "truths" of today may well become the health "fallacies" of tomorrow; we just don't know.

Now, off to check my "farro" (whole wheat) soup that's on the boil!
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 05:43 AM   #32
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

ladelfina,
I worked with a guy in the early 80's and he was so thin it was comical. I'll bet his waist was 22 inches. He was 5'9" ish and wore cowboy boots. Never asked his weight but it had to be near 100 lbs.

At lunch, he would eat enough food for 2-3 people. It used to gross all of us out. Two big Macs, large fries, apple turnover, milkshake. Then a cup of coffee. He drank coffee/cream/sugar all day long.

Never gained an ounce. Hard to "splain".
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 06:01 AM   #33
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

The biggest meal of the dayshould be Breakfast, the smallest, Supper.

Fat makes you high risk for Diabetes, Heart problems, and if you ever need Surgery, it is more difficult to move a fat person plus go through the layers to access organs.

Avoid whites, pasta, Bread, Sugar, walk a mile at least three times a week.

Some people are genetically inclined to be thin, my youngest son and wife are in that category, I and my oldest son have to watch what we eat and must hit the Gym at least 3 times a week.

10 seconds on the lips, a year on the hips.

Stay Healthy so you can see your Grand Children grow up.
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 07:43 AM   #34
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

Can anyone say, "portion size"? I forget where I was not so long ago, and they had small, medium, and large sodas. The "small" was 32 oz. How many calories do you supposed there are in a "Double Gulp"?

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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 08:44 AM   #35
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

It's not a matter of "fault," rather a lack of acceptance.

National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
http://naafa.org/

Here's a photo from the annual convention.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC03972.jpg (13.4 KB, 89 views)
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 08:58 AM   #36
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

Food is cheap and plentiful. Food tastes good. Our genes say eat when food is around.

So the world is getting fat. Not just Americans.

I think we could do much more to encourage exercise, especially walking. Put sidewalks and trails in suburbia and make cities walking friendly. When we look for a place to live, we think about how walking friendly is the neighborhood. Yesterday I was in St. Paul and walked with my sister and neice around lake Como. Even though there was a foot of snow on the ground, the walk was plowed and clean, and many, many were walking around the lake.



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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 09:20 AM   #37
 
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

This is a more complicated issue that you might think. Here's my best guess as to why people are fatter than they were 30 years ago:

1. HFCS: Starting in 1966, high-fructose-corn-syrup (HFCS) started replacing sugar. This accelerated in 1980, when manufacturing processes made it cheaper. That's around when people started getting fatter.

Fructose is a different story. It "appears to behave more like fat with respect to the hormones involved in body weight regulation," explains Peter Havel, associate professor of nutrition at the University of California, Davis. "Fructose doesn't stimulate insulin secretion. It doesn't increase leptin production or suppress production of ghrelin. That suggests that consuming a lot of fructose, like consuming too much fat, could contribute to weight gain." Whether it actually does do this is not known "because the studies have not been conducted," said Havel.

2. Diet drinks. There was a recent study that showed that diet soda drinkers are fatter. My thought was, "duh, why would a skinny person drink a diet soda?" But there may be some causality there.

By itself, diet soda cannot be blamed for weight gain; however, various contributing factors may play a role.

For example, a person who drinks a diet soda may feel it's acceptable to make up for those calories with another high-calorie food. And while the tongue is temporarily satisfied by the sweet taste of diet soda, the brain isn't similarly fooled and still craves calories for energy. Other studies have suggested people who drink an artificially sweetened beverage before a meal will eat more high-calorie foods than those who do not.
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 09:29 AM   #38
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

Hmmm

It's a style thing. Before Katrina - I used to go pick up meds. for a blind friend in Vietnamese village(lowest price around) - the pharmacy lady was educated and normal weight - and 'American height'. Go around the corner to the open air market - the younger crowd was a foot/foot and half taller - and way wider aka overweight than the 'old generation' running the stalls. They also had that godawlful rap music blaring out of their pimped rides.

heh heh heh heh - you are what you eat - right?
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 10:26 AM   #39
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
Is everyone missing the point that "fat" is not a pathology?!?
Great post Ladelfina! Very well thought out.

Reading through the rest of this, it really strikes home how many arrows are pointed at us. Product placement and in store marketing. Packaged convenience foods. Cheap sugar substitutes. Rationalization. Changes in our lifestyles away from working with our hands while on our feet to working with our fingers while on our backsides coupled with the unavailability of exercise options. The governments programs working quietly against us.

Certainly a formidable array of problems.

Some personal experiences.

My supermarket has the in-your-face bakery section the minute you walk in the door. This certainly results in the insertion of cherry turnovers into my cart at an alarming rate. But at trader joes where they dont do that, I always make a stop at the frozen dessert section before leaving to peruse the chocolate tortas and key lime pies.

I stand behind the 50-100lb overweight parents with their 20-30lb overweight children and their 30lb year old infant. The infant has a 12oz baby bottle filled with juice stuck in its mouth. I know where its weight is coming from. The basket is filled with cheap juice knock-off 'pouches' and boxes, hamburger helper, a case box of variety chips. Ice cream. Soda. Fried pork rinds. Sausages. Frozen pizza. Maybe a bag of frozen mixed vegetables but rarely anything fresh. Check...I can see where the rest of them are taking on the weight. I love big macs. I wanna have one every time I drive by a macdonalds or walk by the one situated near the entrance inside the walmart. But I know if I did, I'd be as big as a dirigible.

My old admin who ate a cinnamon bun the size of my head every morning, accompanied by a diet coke. Who got royally ripshit at the guy with the pushcart when he had no diet coke and she had to get a regular one because that was going to screw up her diet.

My neighborhood, before there were homes, used to have a set of railroad tracks that moved freight trains full of the local rice, nuts and peaches to the rest of the world. The homes were built, tracks were pulled up, and in their place is a ~10-12 mile long paved bike path that runs through orchards and rice paddies with a beautiful view of the Sutter Buttes. On a weekday when I go skate or tow gabe in his bike trailer, I'm usually the only person on the trail. Since its flat as a pancake and straight as an arrow, I can pretty much see the whole thing end to end. On a weekend, I might see a couple of dog walkers or bicyclists. I use it all the time. When its raining or chilly or hot, we go to the mall or to a warehouse store and walk around those and let gabe push a shopping cart around the whole place.

Every other day I hear about the debunking of a formerly well accepted "good" food or supplement item. Wine is good. Wine is bad. Fat is good. Fat is bad. Yada yada yada.

Watching an episode of Penn and Tellers "Bullshit!" they dug into the food business. They interviewed a few very overweight couples who 'tried everything' diet-wise. All of the special diets and foods helped them lose a few pounds over the months they were on it, then when they went off the diet, the weight (and more) came back.

Then they tried eating a balanced reasonable diet of 2000-2500 calories a day with lean meat, vegetables, and limited packaged foods and junky crap. Exercised for 20-30 minutes every day or at least 3-5 days a week.

Guess what, all the weight fell off.

The really, really interesting part of that show? They disclosed that the truth behind the "before" and "after" pictures you see in diet marketing materials. The diet companies find an athlete that has suffered an injury, usually a serious one that requires a few months of laying in bed. When they recover, they take a 'before' picture of them fat and flabby. Then those people resume their normal life routine of eating well and exercising...oh yeah, and maybe popping a few of those pills or drinking some of those funny shakes. A couple of months later when these folks have gotten back to the same well-toned, well weighted shape they were in before suffering their injury...they take the 'after' photos.

Fun stuff.

The opportunity to eat well and get on your feet for a reasonable period every day is readily available, frequently less expensive than our 'regular diet' and really not that hard to do. Avoiding the bad stuff just takes discipline and willpower. Eventually you'll get to a reasonable body weight and health level.

As ladelfina points out, that doesnt mean rail skinny. But it sure as **** doesnt mean being so porky that you cant see your own private parts or tie your own shoes.

Unclemick...tell those tall, fat, rap music listening kids to get the hell off your lawn!
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?
Old 03-20-2006, 11:55 AM   #40
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Re: If You Are Fat, Whose Fault Is It?

I have also read that it doesn't cause the same "full" sensation as sucrose- so you eat more. I don't know if it's legit.. just something I read. I try and avoid HFCS (although it's in everything) when possible, and I avoid aspartame like the plague. Sucralose (and acesulfame potassium) is on my avoid when possible list, but is more acceptable than aspartame.... Tagatose is on my "I can't wait" list.
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