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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 04:11 PM   #21
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

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Originally Posted by retire@40
Do you think that, or are you just repeating the damage control spin?
So your bias is more correct then his?
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Re: "You might get stuck in Iraq..."
Old 10-31-2006, 04:15 PM   #22
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Re: "You might get stuck in Iraq..."

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
And anyone but a moron can see that Bush dragged the US into Iraq on false pretenses. Let's stick to what is importnat, hey?
Wait a minute, I thought only CONGRESS can declare war?
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Re: "You might get stuck in Iraq..."
Old 10-31-2006, 04:18 PM   #23
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Re: "You might get stuck in Iraq..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
And anyone but a moron can see that Bush dragged the US into Iraq on false pretenses. Let's stick to what is importnat, hey?
Spelling is importnat.

JG
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Re: "You might get stuck in Iraq..."
Old 10-31-2006, 04:34 PM   #24
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Re: "You might get stuck in Iraq..."

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Originally Posted by Leonidas
I'm completely confused by the Democrats' strategy. All I see is a general condemnation of everything the Republicans have done without offering any alternatives. There are plenty of things the current administration has done that I have problems with, but even if their plan is crappy - at least they have a plan. The Dems plan seems to consist solely of "it's time to change course."
I've heard Pelosi and a few other Dems talk about this. They have consciously chosen not to run on any issue except that Bush and his backers need to go. They believe that the Karl Rove attack machine that has been so effective (and often completely dishonest) for these past 6 years only works if it has a target to smear mud on. The only target they are allowing is Bush himself. How does Rove attack a Bush is a Loser campaign. They also believe that once in power they will be able to make changes that are viewed as positive. They believe the attack machine will not be effective against clearly positive change.

I'm not sure I believe they are right, but I do understand the strategy. Dems believe that there is one overriding problem in US politics today -- George W. Bush. Keep the message simple and on target. Neutralize that problem. In two years the message is likely to be just as simple and direct. Get rid of that problem.
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 04:48 PM   #25
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...5/ai_n16700113

Another troubling trend is the Army accepting a growing number of recruits who have some of the lowest scores on the Armed Forces Qualification Test. Category IV recruits are those who have scored below the 31st percentile on the test, or what is the lowest category the military can accept. Army officials say the branch will have enlisted 3,200 Category IV recruits by the end of next month, the end of the federal fiscal year. They now comprise about 4 percent of the recruiting class, compared to 1 percent or less throughout the 1990s.
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 04:51 PM   #26
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a...00010000000001

Quote:
. . .
It came during a campaign rally for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. Kerry opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, saying at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now "lives in a state of denial."

He then said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

That, Kerry said, was meant as a reference to Bush, not troops. Kerry said it is the president who owes U.S. soldiers an apology -- for "a Katrina foreign policy" that misled the country into war in Iraq, failed to adequately study and plan for the aftermath, has not properly equipped troops and has expanded the terrorist threat. . .
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 04:58 PM   #27
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

sqeee-- The problem with that type of campaign is you are relying on the "Anybody but Bush" theory. It didn't work in 2000. Why would the thinking populace vote for someone who's campaign is, "I can do better, but I won't tell you how, because I don't want my ideas to be smeared." If their ideas are so good they wouldn't be afraid of having people tear them apart. Those people might discover the ideas is a good one. Leadership is taking the lead and putting your ideas out there to be ridiculed and laughed at. Some of the ideas are successful, while others should have been forgotten as soon as they were thought up.

That type of campaign also leads me to believe all they will do if elected is oppose anything the GOP puts out, whether it is good or bad.
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 05:11 PM   #28
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
Do you think that, or are you just repeating the damage control spin?
That's why I wrote "I think", I hadn't heard any spin when I wrote this just saw the video clip. I guess Kool-Aid must interfer with the ability to recognize sarcasm..... and stupidity of GWB
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 07:04 PM   #29
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

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Originally Posted by lets-retire
sqeee-- The problem with that type of campaign is you are relying on the "Anybody but Bush" theory. It didn't work in 2000. . .
I don't have any idea if it will work or to what extent. I didn't choose the strategy nor have I endorsed it. But it is not 2000. I doubt seriously that GWB could get close enough to allow the Supremes to give him the election this year. Things have changed. Based on recent polls, there seems to be a lot of people who are willing to choose anybody but Bush in the current election.

Rove has orchestrated significant victories catoring to one-dimensional voters. He has sliced and diced the country into one issue regions and turned his attack machine on one Democrat at a time based on those single issues. He has kept the message simple for the simple-minded voter he wanted to appeal to.

For better or for worse, the Democratic strategy seems to be modeled after Rove's approach. Take one issue (in this case Bush is a Loser) and pound home the single message: You must neutralize him for the good of the country. The Dems may be blowing a great opportunity to sieze power, or they may be very successful. We'll see how it plays in about a week.
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Re: "You might get stuck in Iraq..."
Old 10-31-2006, 07:51 PM   #30
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Re: "You might get stuck in Iraq..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
How does Rove attack a Bush is a Loser campaign.
They're doing it now by saying "Bush is not a loser" with interviews all over: "the economy is good, unemployment is down, the stock market is up, we are making progress in Iraq, the Dems will not protect you from terrorism . . ."
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 09:44 PM   #31
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

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Originally Posted by sgeeeee

He has kept the message simple for the simple-minded voter he wanted to appeal to.
Do you think that the "wine and cheese liberal" leadership of the current Dem party is helping the cause with their outspoken hatred of the non-lexus-driving work-a-day folks? Is telling "Joe Blue Collar" that his vote is not wanted by the Dems because the "elite libs" alone will bring them to victory smart planning? A few hundred thousand blue collar votes would have gone a long way in 2004!
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 09:51 PM   #32
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

Some of us 'old farts' remember the Vietnam war and conscription. We worry about that for our kids/grandkids. Kerry's comment will resonate with our generation.

Bush and his menions forget that our brothers and classmates served in 'the zone'. Their 'reserve status' doesn't cut it, thank you.
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 09:59 PM   #33
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

What he meant to say was this.

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get us stuck in Iraq,"

Sen. Kerry is known for flubbing lines which is one of the reasons why he is
Sen. Kerry and not President Kerry.However Kerry served which is more that I can say for the guys that got us in to this mess in Iraq so I doubt that he would ever say anything against our troops. Pres. Bush and Co. who are jumping all over this need to cut the crap. It won't save their hides next Tuesday.
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 10:01 PM   #34
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreal
What he meant to say was this.

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get us stuck in Iraq,"
Well he ought to know, since he voted for the war. Or was it against it? Or was it for it after he voted against it? Or was it against it after he voted for it?
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 10:05 PM   #35
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

it seems that the public ain't buyin the BS that John F'n Kerry is selling. The latest ABC news poll: (not scientific!!)

Quote:
Sen. John Kerry claims that the White House has distorted his comment that kids who don't do well in school "get stuck in Iraq." The White House has accused him of "troop bashing," and is demanding an apology.

Was Kerry's statement offensive to troops?

Yes. The comment was unnecessary and negative. Kerry should apologize.
8,435
No. This isn't even an issue. It's just Republicans trying to hurt Democrats close to elections.
2,944
Possibly. But I don't think that was his intention. The press is making too big a deal out of this.
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Total Vote: 11,967
Not a scientific survey.
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 10:11 PM   #36
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
Some of us 'old farts' remember the Vietnam war and conscription. We worry about that for our kids/grandkids. Kerry's comment will resonate with our generation.
Well, I'd be one of those "old farts" and my lottery number was 25.

I think Kerry's remarks were ridiculous and inappropriate. I cannot bring myself to excuse him based on the performance of any others. Looking at him alone, an experienced US Senator, he just blew it. Dumb.
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 10:31 PM   #37
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

I listened to an interview with GWB on the Hannity show tonight
(yes, I know it was not unbiased). Anyway, "W" never sounded more
upbeat and statesmanlike. Is it too late for me to register?

JG
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 10-31-2006, 11:01 PM   #38
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

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Originally Posted by youbet
Do you think that the "wine and cheese liberal" leadership of the current Dem party is helping the cause with their outspoken hatred of the non-lexus-driving work-a-day folks? Is telling "Joe Blue Collar" that his vote is not wanted by the Dems because the "elite libs" alone will bring them to victory smart planning? A few hundred thousand blue collar votes would have gone a long way in 2004!
I really don't have any idea what you're talking about. Maybe you failed to finish reading that post. I indicated that the Dem strategy seemed to be modeled after the Rove approach. I didn't support the strategy, just reported it. I think most politicians from both sides would sell their mothers into slavery for a voting bloc. One dimensional voters are the easiest targets. Find people who can get whooped into a frenzy of fear over a single issue (guns, gods, gays, trees, war, or welfare) and feed that fear.

But I don't know what "wine and cheese" liberals are. That seems like a misguided label to me. My guess is that the elitist country clubs in this country are filled with more Republicans than Democrats. I've never seen statistics on that. I also have never seen any indication that the Democratic party thinks they are too good for blue collar voters. Historically, that group has been their strength. It would seem like political suicide to take a stance like that and I would think that Dem leaders know better than that. This concept sounds like some sort of Fox News fantasy to me.
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 11-01-2006, 12:22 AM   #39
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

Sgeeeee, you're definitely an alligator!
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"
Old 11-01-2006, 08:18 AM   #40
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Re: "...if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq"

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Well he ought to know, since he voted for the war. Or was it against it? Or was it for it after he voted against it? Or was it against it after he voted for it?
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