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Old 07-02-2010, 09:07 AM   #321
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?? The only point I get is that you seem to get some perverse satisfaction from throwing around your legal weight to jerk around the lowly car salesperson and feel 'superior', when you know full well what his/her job description and authority is.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:34 AM   #322
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Yep. You folks who live in a civilized area don't have to worry about dying of thirst and getting eaten by buzzards while waiting for a car to come by to rescue you. Buncha wusses...
The Texas Chamber of Commerce speaks again!
I see that one of my favorite bands is playing Austin City Limits this fall, btw, Grace Potter and the Nocturnals. Wow they are fantastic! Should check out Stop the Bus and Apologies. And you guys will love Grace! She can do a Grace Slick on White Rabbit that will knock you out!

...the master thread hijacker rests...
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:43 AM   #323
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...the master thread hijacker rests...
Close, but no cigar...
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:56 AM   #324
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I'm well aware of the practical issue. But it's a matter of principle. I never negotiate as a principal with a "clerk" with no authority. Second I make it clear that he can make or not make a deal but if he leaves to "check with his manager" I am out of there and a complaint will follow to the regulatory authorities. Finally I never make an "offer" I say "do we have a deal at $$$"
That is what negotiating is about.

Did you ever buy diamonds in New York or leather in Florence or Gold in Cairo? Nobody ever "checks with a manager " They do deals. The "check with a manager" system is a scam designed to wheedle you into making an offer which they can accept or reject after you are committed to it. I just don't play the game.

When I bought a house I made an "all cash" offer good for 1 hour. I waited 20 minutes and got the house.

Hmmmm... OK... So you walk out when the guy tells you that is below what he can sell for, but close enough to run it by to see if you can get you that deal.... sound like a winner to me...

Actually yes... I have bought gold in Egypt (not Cairo)... and have seen the diamond dealers in NY (didn't want one)... as YOU know.. that is BS to compare them... they are small shops... and usually you are dealing with the owner or the one or two other employees that sell... all of them KNOW the price they are willing to sell... also, there is not some kind of title issue etc. with this sale... ie, no paperwork... you can pay cash and walk out... not the same with a car... there IS paperwork... PS... my deal DID have to be run by the manager (owner) as we wanted to have something changed on the piece and the guy did not know how much work was needed... so...

But even using your example... IF your offer is good... then the deal is made.. but as mentioned... you have to have paperwork done... if you are willing... you do not even have to get a 'signed' deal if you wait for them to get all the paperwork done... they can say 'we have a deal' and not sign a 'contract'.... just sign all the other paperwork needed...

If you see it as a game that put you in an unfair advantage... that is a problem with you... I don't feel like I am at a disadvantage... I am smart enought to walk if needed... I never buy anything big on emotion... never.. I am NEVER committed to a car... I have walked out of a places before and am sure will again...


Last... why would a complaint be filed with anybody This one sound like you being vindictive... because someone didn't want to play your game...
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:02 AM   #325
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The Texas Chamber of Commerce speaks again!
I see that one of my favorite bands is playing Austin City Limits this fall, btw, Grace Potter and the Nocturnals. Wow they are fantastic! Should check out Stop the Bus and Apologies. And you guys will love Grace! She can do a Grace Slick on White Rabbit that will knock you out!

...the master thread hijacker rests...
Glad you made note of this, otherwise we'd have had a nocturnal omission...

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Close, but no cigar...
Is that you, Bubba?
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:10 AM   #326
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Is that you, Bubba?
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:57 AM   #327
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Last... why would a complaint be filed with anybody This one sound like you being vindictive... because someone didn't want to play your game...
21st century gun-fighting? "Sue first, ask questions later"??
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:31 PM   #328
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You all really don't understand. You are dealing with a Professor Emeritus and Lawyer. That is spelled E M E R I T U S. He does not deal with the 'little people' you know the 'Clerks'. He is way too important for this.

My mother use to have a say of this type of individual. 'If you could buy him for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he is worth you would be rich.'
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:07 PM   #329
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I guess I am not being clear. ...
I disagree. You make your point very well.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:11 PM   #330
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I fully agree the typical new-car purchasing experience is nuts and I was not trying to defend it. My point was that I wasn't going to purchase a "5K or under POS" since driving through the wide open spaces of West TX in a "well seasoned" auto is not my idea of how I want to spend my retirement.

The last new car I bought was from a "one price, no negotiation" Honda dealer. It was a pleasant experience. The only other new car purchase that came close to being that easy was one I bought via the internet right after Al Gore invented it.
As near as I can figure, the process is broken, and there are vested interests (Hi, guys!) in keeping it broken. Even though I knew exactly what I wanted, I still had to plan on spending a full day in a dealership, between the sales guy, manager, and finance guy. Yeah, even when paying cash. The finance guy is really a sales stop, for undercoating, Lustre Glow paint treatment, extended warranties ("Ya know, if this breaks we gotta get a new engine from Japan. Could take weeks. The extended warranty gets ya a free rental.")

That said, from my last car buying experience, it appears that it is possible to do an end run around the process. For this to work, you have to know exactly what you want to buy in advance (vehicle make, model, option packages, and yes, even paint color if it matters to you). Have your financing lined up, and don't do a trade-in. Then, use the web site or e-mail address of the 'internet sales rep' at several regional dealerships to inquire as to their best price and availability for the particular vehicle you want.

My experience was that about half the sales reps responded with an actual offer, with the remainder either inviting me to drop by for a 'discussion' in person, or just adding the reply e-mail address to their junk mail list.

I then took the intersection of the dealerships that replied with an offer, with the dealerships that had the best reputation on several local review websites. My experience was that one of the best dealerships also had the best price on what I wanted.

I made an appointment, showed up, and got the deal done in just under two hours at the agreed price. I figure I saved an hour or two of four-square games, "Gotta talk to the manager" breaks, and general thumb twiddling and stress. I still had to sit through the finance guy's spiels (45 minutes).

(As I tend to drive vehicles until they disintegrate, the old car was melted into boat anchors and soup cans donated to a charity for a tax deduction.)
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:23 PM   #331
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I made an appointment, showed up, and got the deal done in just under two hours at the agreed price. I figure I saved an hour or two of four-square games, "Gotta talk to the manager" breaks, and general thumb twiddling and stress. I still had to sit through the finance guy's spiels (45 minutes).

(As I tend to drive vehicles until they disintegrate, the old car was melted into boat anchors and soup cans donated to a charity for a tax deduction.)

Funny.... the last two times I bought a new car the finance guy did not spend much time trying to sell me anything... the first one said "we got this" and I said "I will not buy anything else, let's not waste time"... he did not.. NOW, the amount of papers that he had to spew out of the printer was a lot... we did have a clunker etc. etc... so lots of signing..
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:38 PM   #332
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Funny.... the last two times I bought a new car the finance guy did not spend much time trying to sell me anything...
Same here - I just said I was paying cash and that was that. For the Plymouth, I think I got some extended warranty, clear-coat offers, but I guess my firm "NO, THANK YOU" and body language convinced the guy not to waste any additional time. No pressure that I recall at all with the Volvo. These were both end-of-the-model-year-on-the-lot-vehicles so maybe they were just happy to move them. I kept any trade in separate.

But next time, I may go the no-haggle route (Costco or Credit Union?) or may M Paquette's method of emailing specs and asking for take-it-or-leave-it price.

-ERD50
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:44 PM   #333
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This was my plan, but the wife wanted a hybrid and wasn't crazy about the Prius or Camry. The one she liked was the Ford Fusion/ Milan, and they just havn't been out that long.
Did you know the hybrid technology used in the Ford Fusion is Toyota's design?
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:20 PM   #334
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?? The only point I get is that you seem to get some perverse satisfaction from throwing around your legal weight to jerk around the lowly car salesperson and feel 'superior', when you know full well what his/her job description and authority is.

Why don't you simply call the owner of the car dealership ahead of time, explain you will only negotiate with him/her directly, and make an appointment?

-ERD50
This was the time they claimed the manager was too busy with another customer after I called ahead and had an appointment with the manger
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:34 PM   #335
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This was the time they claimed the manager was too busy with another customer after I called ahead and had an appointment with the manger
So scratch that dealer off your list. Problem solved.

Hmmm, if you end up scratching too many dealers off your list, it might be tough to strike a real bargain. Funny how reality comes around to bite, eh?

-ERD50
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Old 07-02-2010, 05:45 PM   #336
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So scratch that dealer off your list. Problem solved.

Hmmm, if you end up scratching too many dealers off your list, it might be tough to strike a real bargain. Funny how reality comes around to bite, eh?

-ERD50

Heck.... why worry about negotiating with them... call the owner and TELL him to have your car ready to pick up... you will only pay X for it and if you do not sell it to me for that.... well... there will be HELL to pay....

Much easier... takes out all the middle men...

Heck... why not just call up GM and have them send you over a car



PS.... that reminded me of one deal from my BIL I had forgotten... funny story... he had ordered a truck at a GM (maybe Chevy)... back when you did this kind of thing... he kept waiting for it... and waiting... many months go by... he then found out that GM canceled his order because they were having problems with the dealership... he actually talked to the Chairman of GM (I was there)... the chairman said to go to the dealership and pick out any truck on the lot and it was his for the price they had agreed.... BIL got a LOADED truck... the one he ordered was pretty loaded, but not as much as the one he picked...
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:15 PM   #337
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So scratch that dealer off your list. Problem solved.

Hmmm, if you end up scratching too many dealers off your list, it might be tough to strike a real bargain. Funny how reality comes around to bite, eh?

-ERD50
no the bad ones go out of business, one way or another. funny how reality comes around to bite eh?
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:19 PM   #338
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Did you know the hybrid technology used in the Ford Fusion is Toyota's design?
I did not know that. But it really doesn't matter, she just liked the Mercury better. She probably thinks that they are still made in the USA. The deal is done now and she likes the car. She has already put over a 1000 miles on it. She took my sister and a couple of our nieces shopping in Branson so that raked up a lot of miles. And she is getting around 40 miles to the gallon.
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:50 PM   #339
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I did not know that. But it really doesn't matter, she just liked the Mercury better. She probably thinks that they are still made in the USA. The deal is done now and she likes the car. She has already put over a 1000 miles on it. She took my sister and a couple of our nieces shopping in Branson so that raked up a lot of miles. And she is getting around 40 miles to the gallon.
I didin't write the last statement correctly. All of Ford's hybrid technology is licensed from Toyota.
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:58 PM   #340
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no the bad ones go out of business, one way or another. funny how reality comes around to bite eh?
I'm not sure that a dealer who expects you to work through the sales force is a 'bad' one though. Although not keeping an appointment is rude. Maybe he was just yanking your chain - sensing that you were yanking his?

-ERD50
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