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Old 06-22-2010, 08:51 PM   #81
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I am sure that he knows what he is doing. There is slim chance that this is anything other than a manipulation. Are you sure that the passage of time doesn't in some way weaken your position?

Ha
I don't know, they have the money and a car that I evidently signed for, it could be a wreck for all I know.. I have a car that I can't title and is obviously owned by the dealership.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:52 PM   #82
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Pray tell. Don't get me wrong; I am not sarcastic. Lacking street smart, I like to hear stories like that.
LOL - I really wanted to ask the same thing, but wasn't sure how to do so without sounding somewhat snarky. So, yeah, no sarcasm intended, but I would also be curious how that happens.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:55 PM   #83
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The more expensive car listed for $34,000, it was on the sticker for all to see. The other car listed for $32,000. I paid $30,000.
Dear Lord, maybe I am completely out of touch with new car pricing, but given that, I would be quite surprised if he would lose money selling you the $34K car for $30K.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:57 PM   #84
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I am sure that he knows what he is doing. There is slim chance that this is anything other than a manipulation. Are you sure that the passage of time doesn't in some way weaken your position?

Ha
Do you really think that the dealer would give you the car to drive for a few days and then try to get a $1000 out of you. Now, if this doesn't work they get the car back and get to do everything all over again and have a car with a 1000 miles or so on it. Please believe me that there may be some tactics used in the car biz to sell cars but this is not one of them.

Look at it this way, who has the upper hand if the customer has the car. Think about it, do you think a dealer that does hundreds of cars has the time to do stuff like this. It almost amazes me that anyone can think this is normal. Who wants to deal with this type of stuff, in 35 years I've never heard of this so called scam to sell cars.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:59 PM   #85
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Dear Lord, maybe I am completely out of touch with new car pricing, but given that, I would be quite surprised if he would lose money selling you the $34K car for $30K.
You would be surprised to hear that many cars have $800 or less profit from MSRP to cost. Also many cars have much more profit than $4000.
Usually the more expensive the car the more room for the dealer to move on price.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:02 PM   #86
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Why?
Just curious. If you are afraid readers of this forum may take this as instructions for scamming, I understand...
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:05 PM   #87
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:05 PM   #88
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You would be surprised to hear that many cars have $800 or less profit from MSRP to cost. Also many cars have much more profit than $4000.
Usually the more expensive the car the more room for the dealer to move on price.
I guess this is what I was thinking - but I suspect you are also going to say $30K is not expensive for a car today. As I said - it's been a long time since I bought a new car, so I may be reliving the 1980s....

Also, I am not convinced it is a scam. But I dont think I would be happy with the situation or the dealer's response. I think it really depends on how much dm really wants the car he has yet to see or drive.....
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:06 PM   #89
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I am not afraid of snakes, but hate them. I am both afraid of and hate scams. Scams make me poorer.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:06 PM   #90
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Vehicle purchase contract - car sale contracts
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:07 PM   #91
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I used to buy cars for members of my family. several times car salesmen tried the "the manager wouldn't go for the price" scam. I always answered "that just cost you another $500 for the insult to my intelligence" I always got the car with the $500 off.
I once got that "The manager made a mistake and wants another $1,000 for the car." scam after I was there for over an hour and took a test drive. I yelled at the salesman (loud enough for other customers to hear me LOL) and walked out.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:10 PM   #92
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I am not afraid of snakes, but hate them. I am both afraid of and hate scams. Scams make me poorer.
My advice would be to stay away from them.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:58 PM   #93
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I'd put this on a timeline- tell them it needs to be resolved by X day- and your position is that you either need to pick up paperwork for the car you are driving,or you will drop off the car, no hard feelings and sorry you couldn't make the deal work. Ask them to please let you know by the close of business the day before if you need to have someone meet you there to give you a ride home. Oh, and you won't be bringing your checkbook.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:11 PM   #94
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I used to buy cars for members of my family. several times car salesmen tried the "the manager wouldn't go for the price" scam. I always answered "that just cost you another $500 for the insult to my intelligence" I always got the car with the $500 off.
We used to kick guys like you out of our dealership........
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:12 PM   #95
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We had a similar but different issue on my car when I bought it back in 2003. The dealer made a mistake of allowing us a $2000 rebate, even when we pointed out to the financial guy (we were paying cash) that it wasn't eligible for the rebate. Only argued once, took the car and went home. They started calling DW two days later, offering to "let" us only pay back $1000. She refused, and somehow managed to stand her ground even when they threw in an offer for free undercoating. She told them that I had gone out of town in it and would bring it back Monday for a full refund.

I brought it back to them Monday after my weekend camping and four wheeling trip. Only put 350 miles and about 200 lbs. of mud on it. I'm still driving it, and very happy with it.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:37 PM   #96
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It's hard to say what I would do, but I think I would just give the car back. It's quite possible that the saleperson made an honest mistake. I realize that, but I still think I would still drop the whole thing and start over. By the time I signed the paper and all that, to me, in my mind, the car is worth only as much as I've paid for it - not a dollar more. If I go to a store and buy an item for a certain amount of money, leave the store, and then the store keeper runs to me and tells me that the price on the item was wrong - it has extra so and so on the item and the actual cost is a little more, so can you come back in and give us the extra money. I would find that absurd actually. I realize cars aren't little items you can just pick up in a store, but I think the principle is still the same. In the case of cars, when I say I don't want it, I imagine they will try to sell it to me somehow - perhaps by saying hey, this item is actually worth this much, but because of our mistake, we will give it to you for half that etc, etc (which I would find quite annoying.) I don't get attached to material things that much, so a tactic like that would only make me feel manipulated.

Also, when a situation gets weird like this, I call the situation *muddy*. I don't like to do major monetary transactions once things get muddy. I retrieve/withdraw for a clearer day - and a clearer smooth transaction - most likely with another dealership all toghether, because this dealer is already no good, in my book.

BTW, I would consider someone saying to me "lets wait one more day and think it over, so we could both cool off." insulting.

It's quite possible that I am losing out on great sales this way, but this is the way I keep my peace in myself, because if I made a purchase like that, it would bug me for a long time.

My two big cents...
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:40 PM   #97
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I don't know, they have the money and a car that I evidently signed for, it could be a wreck for all I know.. I have a car that I can't title and is obviously owned by the dealership.
dm, I don't like the sound of the position you're in.

If you return the car for a refund and cancellation of the loan, they probably won't give you a check on the spot. This gives them the opportunity to mail you a smaller amount (adjusting for mileage, fees or whatever BS they can think of) and put you in the postion of going after them for the shortage. They also won't let you leave with the car if you disagree with this "it's in the mail" approach. They'll bring it into the shop to inspect, etc. and you won't be allowed further access to it. Watch out for this if you decide to return the car.

To avoid the above, and since you seem happy with the car other than the paperwork, I'd try to negotiate the $1k down to $500 or so and just pay it. I think you said earlier that your research indicated other dealers would have charged you a price comparable to that. So, as Ha said, keep your eye on the ball and get out of this before you wind up needing a lawyer, it gets expensive, or both.

I've had a couple of unsavory experiences with car dealers and both times I didn't get my way, but did cut my losses and haven't regretted taking the simplest, most direct way out of the misunderstandings.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:53 PM   #98
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We used to kick guys like you out of our dealership........
There once was a salesman named Dude
When dealing with customers quite rude

He exclaimed "There's the door!"
and threw them off the showroom floor

Although he worried about getting sued...
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:56 PM   #99
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Do you really think that the dealer would give you the car to drive for a few days and then try to get a $1000 out of you. Now, if this doesn't work they get the car back and get to do everything all over again and have a car with a 1000 miles or so on it. Please believe me that there may be some tactics used in the car biz to sell cars but this is not one of them.

Look at it this way, who has the upper hand if the customer has the car. Think about it, do you think a dealer that does hundreds of cars has the time to do stuff like this. It almost amazes me that anyone can think this is normal. Who wants to deal with this type of stuff, in 35 years I've never heard of this so called scam to sell cars.
This sounds perfectly reasonable, but in your opinion what is going on? The only thing I am absolutely sure of is that the dealer is not having trouble deciding what to do.

ha
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:15 PM   #100
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...Similar thing happened to me once, on the first new car I ever bought, a new Mustang, back in 1981- I took the car home for the weekend, they called on Monday and said they needed an extra $650 to complete the sale, due to "confusion on the installed options." I told them I'd bring the car back, no hard feelings. The Sales Manager went out to "double check" the VIN number, and came back in, his face ashen... the car had over 800 miles on it! (What did they expect from a 23 year old kid with a girlfriend still in college in the next state, anyway?).. I asked them for the keys back on my trade-in, and then the real negotiations started...
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I don't know, they have the money and a car that I evidently signed for, it could be a wreck for all I know.. I have a car that I can't title and is obviously owned by the dealership.
It seems to me dm is in a tight spot as he does not legally own the car he has at home now. On the other hand his "legal" car is being held hostage at the dealership. Oh crap! Can it become a pissing contest of "you trash my car, I trash yours"? Probably not, but while dm racking up the mileage on the "loaner", who's to say a salesman is not taking joy ride in "dm's" car?

Who would know buying a new car can give you such a problem? Hell, come to think of it, I never check the VINs against my titles. Could I have been driving someone else's cars for the last several years, and they mine?
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