Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-22-2010, 11:16 PM   #101
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
in your opinion what is going on? The only thing I am absolutely sure of is that the dealer is not having trouble deciding what to do.

ha
Not trying to answer for 73ss454, but.......

It seems like dealer A sent dealer B a high tier car with a low tier car's paperwork (2 different cars, 2 different vins). dm test drove and liked the high tier car. He sat down with dealer B and negotiated a price based on the high tier car he physically drove while dealer B looked and negotiated based on the low tier car paperwork, signed the papers for the low tier car and went home in the high tier car. Now the mistake has been discovered and dealer B would like $1,000 to approximate the price they would have charged if they had been looking at the correct, high tier, paperwork.

dm has a bill of sale for the low tier car which the dealer has in its possession. dm has the high tier car with no way to title it, get permanent plates, warranty, etc. dm has paid for the car (although the dealer would like $1k more) so dealer's loss is limited.

Like 75ss454, I think this sounds like way too much of a hassle over too few bux to be an intentional scam by the dealer. But the dealer and his staff certainly are missing a few fries from their happy meal......real idiots. And now they're tying to recoup some of their boo-boo by asking dm for some money.
__________________

__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-22-2010, 11:21 PM   #102
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Not trying to answer for 73ss454, but.......

It seems like dealer A sent dealer B a high tier car with a low tier car's paperwork (2 different cars, 2 different vins). dm test drove and liked the high tier car. He sat down with dealer B and negotiated a price based on the high tier car he physically drove while dealer B looked and negotiated based on the low tier car paperwork, signed the papers for the low tier car and went home in the high tier car. Now the mistake has been discovered and dealer B would like $1,000 to approximate the price they would have charged if they had been looking at the correct, high tier, paperwork.

dm has a bill of sale for the low tier car which the dealer has in its possession. dm has the high tier car with no way to title it, get permanent plates, warranty, etc. dm has paid for the car (although the dealer would like $1k more) so dealer's loss is limited.

Like 75ss454, I think this sounds like way too much of a hassle over too few bux to be an intentional scam by the dealer. But the dealer and his staff certainly are missing a few fries from their happy meal......real idiots. And now they're tying to recoup some of their boo-boo by asking dm for some money.
Except that Dealer A and Dealer B have the same owner...and now they want to steal the toy out of his happy meal to make up for giving him the large order of fries.
__________________

__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:44 PM   #103
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,276
So now I just sorted through this mess, whew! As I see it, it can be stripped down to this:

1) As the last few posts mentioned, it seems unlikely that this was an intentional scam, but you may never know.

2) You have the car you wanted.

3) Due to the mix-up, they want you to come up with $1,000 more than you agreed to, but...

4) That's $1,000 LESS than it would cost you to buy this car that you want somewhere else.

5) Returning the car could end up getting messy, with more stress & frustration.

so... to the emotional side of this - turn it to your advantage. Instead of feeling like you are doing business with a scammer (this may not be a scam), just figure that you are walking away with an extra $1,000 in your pocket due to their mistake. You are ahead of the game. Yes, it's $1,000 more than what you agreed to - but unless you can do better somewhere else, it isn't 'real'. Forget about whether the mistake was 'intentional' or not - you can't prove it so why loose sleep over it. You got the car you want for $1,000 less than anywhere else. YOU WON! Take your winnings and be happy!

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:05 AM   #104
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Yes, it's $1,000 more than what you agreed to.... YOU WON! Take your winnings and be happy!-ERD50
OR (depending on your perspective)

It's $1000 more than you were willing to pay. YOU LOSE!
Cough up the extra grand and never be happy about it.

__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:23 AM   #105
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
I'd put this on a timeline- tell them it needs to be resolved by X day- and your position is that you either need to pick up paperwork for the car you are driving,or you will drop off the car, no hard feelings and sorry you couldn't make the deal work. Ask them to please let you know by the close of business the day before if you need to have someone meet you there to give you a ride home. Oh, and you won't be bringing your checkbook.
You made no mention of getting a full refund of the cash down payment and a clean loan cancellation with no fees.........

Not sure dm is going to feel good about that little omission!
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:29 AM   #106
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
You made no mention of getting your money back.........
It's not my money to get back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Not sure dm is going to feel good about that little omission!
Hey, if he doesn't miss the extra $1000, he might not miss the first $30,000, either...
__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:32 AM   #107
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
It's not my money to get back.



Hey, if he doesn't miss the extra $1000, he might not miss the first $30,000, either...
Ahhhhh..... Ok. Sorry, I took your posts seriously. Now, looking back over them, I see you were just joking around......
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:51 AM   #108
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Ahhhhh..... Ok. Sorry, I took your posts seriously. Now, looking back over them, I see you were just joking around......
Well, I guess I did miss mentioning that one small detail...
__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 06:30 AM   #109
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Nodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Cavalier
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
You would be surprised to hear that many cars have $800 or less profit from MSRP to cost. Also many cars have much more profit than $4000.
Usually the more expensive the car the more room for the dealer to move on price.
You are right, I have a close friend who owns a dealership and he has shown me what he makes on some cars. We've known each other since kindergarten so I'm sure he's being truthful.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." Pogo Possum (Walt Kelly)
Nodak is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 06:55 AM   #110
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmm99 View Post
Also, when a situation gets weird like this, I call the situation *muddy*. I don't like to do major monetary transactions once things get muddy. I retrieve/withdraw for a clearer day - and a clearer smooth transaction - most likely with another dealership all toghether, because this dealer is already no good, in my book.
When I was working the streets, we would call scams that become "muddy" gypsy money scams. Many gypsies in the area owned businesses and the way they scammed their victims was to make any financial deal complicated. The more complicated they could make the deal the more money they were scamming. So, like you, when a deal started becoming too complicated I always checked the math. Normally the deal would wind up costing me more than I wanted to spend if I completed the deal. Now if the person starts making a simple deal any more complicated than it has to be, I don't even look at the math, I just walk.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 08:14 AM   #111
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
OR (depending on your perspective)

It's $1000 more than you were willing to pay. YOU LOSE!
Cough up the extra grand and never be happy about it.

Sure, you can look at it that way too. But what I take away from this is that he can't get the car anywhere else for that price, or even the 'negotiated' price. He's still winning after dishing out an extra $1,000, just not winning as big as he expected.

IOW, forget the $30,000 transaction ever happened, the $31,000 transaction is still a good deal. And since some people in the business are saying this looks like a screw-up rather than a scam, the OP really is getting the rare 'good deal' at the dealer's expense. I think it IS a WIN, as long as you don;t focus on that 'transient' $30,000 price that apparently was never a 'real' price. I understand the OP felt it was real, as would I, as he made it on the car he was sitting in. But sometimes we just need to adjust our thinking, and I really do feel that this adjustment that gets him the car he wanted for $1,000 less than he could get it anywhere is one he will be happy with, 'down the road'.

Sounds like this could be a chapter for the next 'Freakonomics' book.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 06-23-2010, 08:21 AM   #112
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
IOW, forget the $30,000 transaction ever happened, the $31,000 transaction is still a good deal. And since some people in the business are saying this looks like a screw-up rather than a scam, the OP really is getting the rare 'good deal' at the dealer's expense.
Yes, I feel this is a mistake by the dealer, and not a scam. If I were the dealership owner, I would swallow this, and ream out the @ss of my sales people later.

Still, as several have pointed out, dm still has a good deal after paying an additional $1K, if he can forget the lower psychological anchor price point of $30K.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 08:37 AM   #113
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,608
So, dealers generally use all sorts of negotiating tactics in hopes of getting consumers confused about the true value of what they are buying, including keeping actual costs secret. But in the rare case where the dealer himself gets confused and accepts a deal but later wishes they could have got more money, they are permitted to hold up the paperwork and demand the consumer pony up at least half of the difference? A difference based on the "secret" information that only the dealer is privy to.

Whether this is an innocent mistake or a scam, it still stinks. There's no way this dealer allows customers to come back in a few days and renegotiate prices lower if they do not like the car as much as they thought. Why should the dealer get unilateral rights to change prices after a sale?
__________________
growing_older is online now  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:03 AM   #114
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
.... But in the rare case where the dealer himself gets confused and accepts a deal but later wishes they could have got more money, they are permitted to hold up the paperwork and demand the consumer pony up at least half of the difference? ...

Whether this is an innocent mistake or a scam, it still stinks. ...
I mostly agree in principle, and this is where the OP is coming from, and I understand it. But the fact is, it looks like the OP isn't holding any cards here. He has a car in his physical possession, but he does not have the paperwork for it, so he can't title it etc. It's messy.

So he can fight it, but from what others have said he will probably lose more than he will gain by accepting the 'negotiated' price (which is still a 'good deal, from the info provided). I am one that stubbornly stands on principle, but even I recognize that at some point you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. IMO, the OP is at that point.

An analogy - Imagine you have done your research and the best price you can get on a specific model TV is $250. So you go to a store to purchase, and you see it for $200 - great! You get to the checkout counter, and they say, I'm sorry sir, we had a pricing error that we just corrected back to $250, but you can have the TV for $225.

$225 is better than you can get anywhere else, it's a good deal. You are not 'losing' $25 from the fleeting $200 price, you are 'winning' $25 from the real best $250 that you can get elsewhere.

I say take it and be happy.

edit/add - it isn't the same as a customer trying to re-negotiate the price because he had second thoughts - there is the very real issue of a mismatched VIN. There is a very real problem here for the OP.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:08 AM   #115
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Sure, you can look at it that way too. But what I take away from this is that he can't get the car anywhere else for that price, or even the 'negotiated' price. He's still winning after dishing out an extra $1,000, just not winning as big as he expected.

IOW, forget the $30,000 transaction ever happened, the $31,000 transaction is still a good deal. And since some people in the business are saying this looks like a screw-up rather than a scam, the OP really is getting the rare 'good deal' at the dealer's expense. I think it IS a WIN, as long as you don;t focus on that 'transient' $30,000 price that apparently was never a 'real' price. I understand the OP felt it was real, as would I, as he made it on the car he was sitting in. But sometimes we just need to adjust our thinking, and I really do feel that this adjustment that gets him the car he wanted for $1,000 less than he could get it anywhere is one he will be happy with, 'down the road'.



Sounds like this could be a chapter for the next 'Freakonomics' book.

-ERD50

ERD, you are forgetting the cardinal rule here on FIRE (LBYM)

If I budget X for something, that is what I am willing to spend, period. Not an extra $1000... If I get it for less, I feel like I got a deal, and am happy. If I have to pay more, I would politely decline because it was over what I budgeted for that particular purchase. Maybe you handle major purchases differently. Hypthetically speaking, would you be happy to pay pay an extra grand for new carpet AFTER it was installed in your home because you liked it? No, you would probably freak out when you got the bill... just because this is a car deal doesn't make it any different. Or, maybe that's just me...
__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:17 AM   #116
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Not trying to answer for 73ss454, but.......

It seems like dealer A sent dealer B a high tier car with a low tier car's paperwork (2 different cars, 2 different vins). dm test drove and liked the high tier car. He sat down with dealer B and negotiated a price based on the high tier car he physically drove while dealer B looked and negotiated based on the low tier car paperwork, signed the papers for the low tier car and went home in the high tier car. Now the mistake has been discovered and dealer B would like $1,000 to approximate the price they would have charged if they had been looking at the correct, high tier, paperwork.

dm has a bill of sale for the low tier car which the dealer has in its possession. dm has the high tier car with no way to title it, get permanent plates, warranty, etc. dm has paid for the car (although the dealer would like $1k more) so dealer's loss is limited.

Like 75ss454, I think this sounds like way too much of a hassle over too few bux to be an intentional scam by the dealer. But the dealer and his staff certainly are missing a few fries from their happy meal......real idiots. And now they're tying to recoup some of their boo-boo by asking dm for some money.
The easiest thing to do would be to have the dealer eat the loss. However, I am sure the dealer thinks that splitting the difference is fair, since dm is getting MORE car for his money, and most likely a better deal than almost anyone else got. Mistakes in business happen all the time, the copier guy misquotes stuff, the computer tech misquotes the job, etc. To assume all car dealers are scum and just play games is a blanket statement, and you all now how much I like those kind of statements.

The customer has almost all the rights in this transaction. Certainly, dm could go the legal route, contact state govt, post a complaint against the delaer with the state, etc. However, dm is getting the use of the car and the extra features, so it's not like he is suffering without a car.........

I am glad to hear NOONE on here has ever made a mistake in their job................
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:29 AM   #117
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeritus View Post
If its a new car, call the manufacturer's regional representative
NB if they take the car back it may be unlawful for them to sell it as a new car, which gives you even more leverage.
You test drove the car . Any claim that they "delivered" the wrong car is simply crap and the owner should know better .
I would say the question is has it been titled... if not, then you have just been on a long test drive and they can sell it new with miles.. if it has been titled in your name... then it is used..
__________________
Texas Proud is online now  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:33 AM   #118
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
The easiest thing to do would be to have the dealer eat the loss. However, I am sure the dealer thinks that splitting the difference is fair, since dm is getting MORE car for his money, and most likely a better deal than almost anyone else got. Mistakes in business happen all the time, the copier guy misquotes stuff, the computer tech misquotes the job, etc. To assume all car dealers are scum and just play games is a blanket statement, and you all now how much I like those kind of statements.

The customer has almost all the rights in this transaction. Certainly, dm could go the legal route, contact state govt, post a complaint against the delaer with the state, etc. However, dm is getting the use of the car and the extra features, so it's not like he is suffering without a car.........

I am glad to hear NOONE on here has ever made a mistake in their job................
I didn't see a blanket statement here that all car dealers are scum. Did someone really say that?

I personally would take the wrong car back and get the one with the right VIN number and go on with my life. I don't think it will be easy to get the $ back already paid for the better car just because of the necessary paperwork involved in cutting a check.

I hope it works out for you, DM.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:36 AM   #119
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
ERD, you are forgetting the cardinal rule here on FIRE (LBYM)

If I budget X for something, that is what I am willing to spend, period. Not an extra $1000...
That's a valid viewpoint on it.

But the OP insisted this is the car he wanted, and I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) that $31,000 versus $30,000 isn't a deal breaker, and that even the $32,000 at the other dealers would not be a deal breaker. He would obviously prefer $30,000 to $31,000, or $31,000 to $32,000 - but it's not clear to me that those were hard limits. I guess the OP will need to tell us that.

If $30,000 is a hard limit, I guess he asks for his money back and returns the car. But then what? He buys a car that he really didn't want for $30,000?

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:38 AM   #120
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Not long ago I had to have an A/C unit in my house replaced. I went out got several offers, checked the BBB, etc. One company came in $2-3k less than everyone else. I doubled checked the BBB asked a few friends if they had heard anything bad about the guy and found nothing. When I called the guy to tell him to start work, he asked how his price was compared to everyone else. I told him he was the lowest by a good margin. He said he hoped so, he forgot to add in profit and labor. Then quickly said he would still do the job for the quoted price. THAT is the customer service I expect from everyone I deal with and that is how they keep people happy.

The dealership had several opportunities to discover the error but they didn't. They also have had several opportunities to keep the customer (dm) happy. The company has at least two dealerships. Split the error to both dealerships and they both lose less than $500. Over the course of the year that is nothing and can be made up on a few deals. I'll bet each lot pays more for their electric bill in a month.
__________________

__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I stand corrected MRGALT2U FIRE and Money 5 04-11-2005 10:29 AM
Does Canada Stand For Anything? Eagle43 Other topics 12 03-01-2005 10:23 AM
Cheap computer deal through 8/15 - new deal! cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 55 11-24-2004 11:04 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:03 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.