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Old 10-22-2007, 05:55 PM   #21
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(She's not had any problem either with opening/editing docs created in MS Word, even without any additional software.)
Mac's cannot read WordPerfect documents. Some of us contrarians at work still use it. Is that a problem for some of you current Mac users? My WordPerfect system will easily convert to MS Word so I sent all documents in both versions.
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Old 10-22-2007, 05:58 PM   #22
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DD has one editor who insists on using Word Perfect -- she asked him to save docs in MS Word before sending them to her...problem solved.
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Old 10-22-2007, 06:08 PM   #23
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I bought a Toshiba Satellite A205-S4577 earlier this year for a thousand bucks at the Air Force BX (no sales tax). It's got a 15.4" widescreen, Pentium Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T5300, 1 gig of DDR2 SDRAM, 160 GB hard drive, DVD Super-Multi double layer, yada yada blah blah blah....I like the PC so far, don't care much for the Vista program that came with it. I prefer Windows XP. I've already had a problem with the Toshiba graphics program. It's working but I get some error messages and sometimes I have to re-load it. I'm thinking about getting something different, graphics-wise. It's a cool laptop, otherwise. I think it was a Consumer Reports Best-Buy.
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Old 10-22-2007, 06:48 PM   #24
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Mac's cannot read WordPerfect documents. Some of us contrarians at work still use it. Is that a problem for some of you current Mac users? My WordPerfect system will easily convert to MS Word so I sent all documents in both versions.
I love Wordperfect and am steadfastly refusing to go from WP 12 to X3 or whatever the newest version is called. Nice table editor, great graphics capabilities and total formatting control. Best of all I don't have to endure Bills version of the English language! (yes I know I can turn off the grammar checker in Word). S'pose Corels corp value will go up based on my recommendation? Naaa - guess not.
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Old 10-22-2007, 07:16 PM   #25
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I have a Dell Latitude X1 - about 4 lbs. The CD/DVD burner is a peripheral that I rarely carry. Love the light weight.
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Old 10-22-2007, 07:29 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Achiever51 View Post
DD has one editor who insists on using Word Perfect -- she asked him to save docs in MS Word before sending them to her...problem solved.
Another option - WordPerfect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
the general manager of Office Productivity for Corel, Richard Carriere, said....

You can save documents in PDF and exchange them very easily. That's an open format.
Remember, 'Word' is just another proprietary format. Best to use open formats whenever you can.

Bigger list here:

Open format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmmm, I always thought rtf was an open format. Turns out it is Microsoft proprietary, but they publish the spec.

When I go to build a doghouse, I'm sure glad I don't have to make sure the 2x4s, the plywood, hammer, nails and paint were all made by the same company. Don't treat your data files any differently.

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Old 10-22-2007, 08:36 PM   #27
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I have a Compaq Presario V2000. It is about three years old now. It has an AMD processor, and it runs HOT! I have had maybe 15 notebooks over the last 10 years. All but this one when I was w&*king. I bought this one because it was cheap, and light. Under $700 when I got it.

I now use it as my primary computer, and gave my desktop to DW. I keep this one beside my chair and turn it off and on about 20 times a day. I learned a long time ago that giving advice on what computer to buy was usually a waste of time, as the person seeking advice usually went out and bought what they had in mind before they ask for advice. Having said that, I would keep it cheap, as most computers today are way more powerful than users need. If you are going to play games, do high level calculations, or very large spreadsheets, then consider a mid price.

Mac makes a good notebook, and they will run windows. For me however it gets down to price. PC's are usually cheaper.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:46 AM   #28
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I just purchased a Dell D630. The base price was $849. I upgrade to 1G 1 dimm, intel wifi card and 3 year international maintenance. So far I think it is a great machine. I am not thrilled with XP Pro. It has more problems than W2K but I guess it was the safer choice over Vista. The touchpad is giving me some problems.
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Old 10-23-2007, 04:46 AM   #29
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Cameras, cellphones, PCs & Laptops, DVD players, etc... become obsolete before the payback for the extra cost of a premium model. In other words, today's premium model is tomorrow's base model ( 2-3 years). Unless there is a specific need that sticks out, I tend to stick with the base model on most electronics.

PC vs Mac is a personal preference. My preference is for lower cost so I go with a Windows laptop.

I don't fool with Linux. Not because I can't figure it out... I am Unix fluent. Rather because I use it for a purpose, it is not my hobby.

Plus I am not part of the hate MS crowd. :confused: Whats the point in that? It is kinda like hating Walmart for pushing prices down via competition.
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:12 AM   #30
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I use my mac powerbook g4 when I'm away - does everything I need to do and is very light. My wife uses her macbook for email and internet only while sitting on the couch watching tv
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Old 10-23-2007, 07:43 AM   #31
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Plus I am not part of the hate MS crowd. :confused: Whats the point in that? It is kinda like hating Walmart for pushing prices down via competition.
A bit OT, but ....

What if one were to say they disliked them (hate is a bit strong) for pushing prices UP and eliminating some good products from the market (DR DOS as an early example?) because of illegal, anti-competitive practices?

How has Microsoft lowered prices for anyone? Remember, they make the software, not the hardware. Competition among hardware suppliers has brought prices down, but what about software?

How about a graph of Microsoft's OS prices versus the hardware prices? That would show what competition can do.

I see Amazon lists Vista at $260, $220 and $180 for the Business, Home Premium, and Home Basic.

Apple's new OSX Leopard is $110, and $190 for a 'family 5-pack license'.

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Old 10-23-2007, 08:22 AM   #32
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I just purchased a Dell D630. The base price was $849.

.... I am not thrilled with XP Pro. It has more problems than W2K but I guess it was the safer choice over Vista.
I'm really not trying to turn this into a Mac vs PC thread, people can look (if interested) and decide for themselves. But I think it might be worth pointing out that the comments that Apples are more expensive may not hold so much weight these days.

I just looked at that Dell 630, and compared it to the entry level MacBook. When you add the 1G RAM to the Dell (2 SIMMS like the MacBook standard offering), upgrade the processor from 1.8GHz/2MBL2 to the 2.0GHZ/4MBL2, and add Bluetooth that the MacBook has, you end up at $997. The MacBook is $1099, available to many for $999 with edu discount.

One could argue for years (many do!) over this feature versus that feature, the OS, the value of the included iLife apps, the demonstrated lack of virus/spyware issues, ad nauseam. But I will say that each of the last few OS upgrades has been a real positive in the land of Apple. Older hardware actually runs faster on the new OS's. Hopefully Leopard is another solid release, we will see soon.

I'm just saying, if you are interested in an Apple laptop, look at the configurations, compare prices and the features that are important to you. You might not see as big a price delta as you may have been led to expect.

True, there aren't really any 'bargain' models in the Apple laptop lineup, if you are looking for sub $999 laptops from Apple, you would need to look at refurb or used. Just FYI.

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Old 10-23-2007, 08:49 AM   #33
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Thank you everyone for their info - I'm looking at all your suggestions and have not madeup my mind.

A poster wondered how mac could not run on my internet service provider's system - I don't know why - maybe because I'm on the Microsoft Internet Network through Qwest. Don't know how they get away with it...
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:13 AM   #34
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A poster wondered how mac could not run on my internet service provider's system - I don't know why - maybe because I'm on the Microsoft Internet Network through Qwest. Don't know how they get away with it...
Actually, that is not the case. I thought it sounded odd.

MS simply does not supply their 'special software' to access their network - but the software built into the Mac works just fine, so there really is no need for it:

Microsoft to kill MSN for the Mac | Tech News on ZDNet

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Under a deal from years ago with Qwest, Microsoft is required to offer Internet access to Mac users. Therefore, customers will still be able to buy $22-a-month Internet access from Microsoft. However, the company will not offer any local software and customers will have to log on using the Mac's built-in Internet Connect dialer.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:28 AM   #35
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Mac is a good computer, however, it is like saying Beta is a good format. From Techonology.inc.com
Linux -- 1 percent
Mac OS X -- 1 percent
Windows XP -- 71 percent
Windows 2000 -- 20 percent
Windows “other” (primarily Windows 95, 98 and ME) -- 7 percent.

This indicates that 98% of the PC's out there are running a windows based system. So if you were a developer and wanted to get a large share of the market, who would you write for, what system would you study if you were in school?

There will never be an end to the Mac vs Windows debate. If your primary use is web browsing, it is a personal choice.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:40 AM   #36
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For a well built basic machine, I'd go with Dells Vostro. You can buy a very well equipped machine for under $600 most of the time. For something more robust, I'd go with a Dell Latitude. You'll get about 85-90% of a thinkpad build quality for a few hundred less.

Buy them "refurbished" through the dell small business web site. Most of the refurbs are machines people returned after a few days or weeks because it didnt suit them or they bought something else. I've bought several and they all appeared like new, no problems. You can also often buy extended warranties on the refurbed Dells for a lot less, since they've been through QA twice. I wouldnt pay more than $150-200 for an extended warranty though. Buying through the small business site gives you generally better support and usually US based technicians. "Better" being a relative term. I've found that all computer tech support to be pretty darn much worthless. You're left to figure it out on your own, reload the recovery disk, send it in for warranty repair, or throw it out. Anything else is an exercise in frustration.

If you have the option, and Dell will probably give it to you, I'd get XP instead of Vista. I'm still trying to figure out what benefits Vista brings that make up for all the problems.

As an alterntive, Toshibas and Acers arent bad lower end, reasonably well made machines. My last experiences with Compaq and HP werent very good. On the high end, thinkpads are decent but make sure you're getting a thinkpad and not just a plain lenovo machine. Those arent anywhere near as well made but they're decent for a lower end machine.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:50 AM   #37
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Not pertinent to the laptop discussion per se, but PC magazine rated the iMac very highly recently. (After I rinse out enough baggies, I'd love a 24" one).
Apple's Hot Class of 2007 - Apple iMac (20-Inch Aluminum): At A Glance - Reviews by PC Magazine

If you must run a Windows OS you still can:
Quote:
When I loaded Windows Vista on the iMac using Boot Camp, it showed its stripes as a fast and capable Windows PC.
Once you go mac, you'll never go back, baby! Sincerely, the ease of use, pretty robust design, and (sorry CFB) lack of viruses far outweigh any cost savings. I've never had anything really "break" on a mac after owning 3 for personal use and a dozen or more via work. One dead multi-y.o. HD one time, and a blown modem from a lightning storm is it. When I left my old job, we still had a ci working as a print server. If you want to save pennies, consider a recent vintage refurbished one (certified, under warranty).

Do your due diligence, of course. Best wishes!
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Old 10-23-2007, 10:39 AM   #38
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This indicates that 98% of the PC's out there are running a windows based system. So if you were a developer and wanted to get a large share of the market, who would you write for, what system would you study if you were in school?
I'm really, really trying to avoid the Mac vs PC debate, but the above information really is not helpful to someone making the decision for their home use.

Rather than infer that there isn't SW available due to those questionable market share stats, why not address the question directly? What software might the user need that they can't get readily on the Mac?

I've seen some very different market share numbers recently anyhow. And how many of those Windows machines are point-of-sale, or kiosk, or industrial or office use, where consumer type apps would not be sold for them anyhow? It seems pretty irrelevant to me. What is relevant is what software would the OP want to use, and is a quality version available at a fair price? Most of what is needed for home use is included in the iLife suite on a Mac.

Or consider this, 30% of students at Harvard are on Macs, 35% of incoming freshman. Other schools are reporting similar stats. Now, do you really think these bright kids that rely on their computers to get their assignments completed, and for fun, are going to risk that high cost education over a computer that doesn't have the software they need? Why? Just because it matches their iPod? Does not add up for me.

FAS Computer Services | 2006-2007 Undergraduate Computing Survey (FAS Computer Services (HASCS))

My kid has had his iBook on the computer network for 3.5 years now, no virus protection at all. zip. No virus/spyware/mallware problems. Don't know a single Mac user that has had a problem like that. A friend of mine that is very anti-Mac was commenting that his virus protection has worked to keep him safe (well, unless the kids download some junk....) - then he complained about all the CPU cycles the protection software was eating up, and how it slows down start up and shutdown times checking for update. So, maybe a 2GHz Mac IS faster than a 2GHz Windows machine?

I don't care what the OP ends up buying, but he asked for input. It should be an informed decision.

Also, OSX being UNIX based (and now POSIX certified), might be a very good thing to learn about in school.


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Old 10-23-2007, 11:10 AM   #39
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If I were an apple shareholder, I'd be pretty mad at the company for putting all that money into patching dozens of vulnerabilities each year and making major OS architectural changes to prevent the viruses they dont have

Asustek and Quanta, who manufacture most windows notebooks, also make the mac notebooks using the same reference designs, the same motherboards, the same disk drives, the same screens, and the same keyboards as many other mid range notebooks that ship with windows. You're paying extra for the apple specific plastic case. imacs and powermacs are built by the same two company's, also from common designs and using common parts.

OS wise, a broad range of objective analyses put OSX roughly on par with Windows for ease of use and features. Having used both extensively, I see no difference until I ran into software products and support restrictions that only supported windows.
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Old 10-23-2007, 11:41 AM   #40
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I ran into software products and support restrictions that only supported windows.
yeh. well I find I can easily live without those.
That's what I meant by the due diligence part.
Personally the only thing I can remember in the last few years is running into a problem with a video link to NBC. I'm sure whatever Jay Leno clip was humorous, but not life-altering.

I didn't really want to get into the battle either, but had just come across the glowing PC mag review by chance and thought "hey, that's a sea change."


I'm happy to pay for the nice case.. I'm a girl! (tee hee) I am also thrilled to pay "extra" for Apple to fix stuff behind the scenes if that's the case!!! Why shouldn't I be? Isn't that just an example of Better Customer Service? Isn't it better than me getting bummed out and losing my stuff and having to pay some pimply hacker kid to fix my bolloxed-up machine all the time?

If you've really experienced no viruses ever and no breakage (as I have) over many years and many PC machines then you are one fortunate dude (but I do not feel jealousy or envy or regret. My universe expands to include your PC happiness and satisfaction.. Namaste.)
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