If You were Going To Buy a Notebook Right Now...

[ERD50]

DD has one editor who insists on using Word Perfect -- she asked him to save docs in MS Word before sending them to her...problem solved.

Another option - WordPerfect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the general manager of Office Productivity for Corel, Richard Carriere, said....

You can save documents in PDF and exchange them very easily. That's an open format.

Remember, 'Word' is just another proprietary format. Best to use open formats whenever you can.

Bigger list here:

Open format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmmm, I always thought rtf was an open format. Turns out it is Microsoft proprietary, but they publish the spec.

When I go to build a doghouse, I'm sure glad I don't have to make sure the 2x4s, the plywood, hammer, nails and paint were all made by the same company. Don't treat your data files any differently.

-ERD50

 

[Rustic23]

I have a Compaq Presario V2000. It is about three years old now. It has an AMD processor, and it runs HOT! I have had maybe 15 notebooks over the last 10 years. All but this one when I was w&*king. I bought this one because it was cheap, and light. Under $700 when I got it.

I now use it as my primary computer, and gave my desktop to DW. I keep this one beside my chair and turn it off and on about 20 times a day. I learned a long time ago that giving advice on what computer to buy was usually a waste of time, as the person seeking advice usually went out and bought what they had in mind before they ask for advice. Having said that, I would keep it cheap, as most computers today are way more powerful than users need. If you are going to play games, do high level calculations, or very large spreadsheets, then consider a mid price.

Mac makes a good notebook, and they will run windows. For me however it gets down to price. PC's are usually cheaper.

 

[MJ]

I just purchased a Dell D630. The base price was $849. I upgrade to 1G 1 dimm, intel wifi card and 3 year international maintenance. So far I think it is a great machine. I am not thrilled with XP Pro. It has more problems than W2K but I guess it was the safer choice over Vista. The touchpad is giving me some problems.

 

[chinaco]

Cameras, cellphones, PCs & Laptops, DVD players, etc... become obsolete before the payback for the extra cost of a premium model. In other words, today's premium model is tomorrow's base model ( 2-3 years). Unless there is a specific need that sticks out, I tend to stick with the base model on most electronics.

PC vs Mac is a personal preference. My preference is for lower cost so I go with a Windows laptop.

I don't fool with Linux. Not because I can't figure it out... I am Unix fluent. Rather because I use it for a purpose, it is not my hobby.

Plus I am not part of the hate MS crowd. Whats the point in that? It is kinda like hating Walmart for pushing prices down via competition.

 

[Ronstar]

I use my mac powerbook g4 when I'm away - does everything I need to do and is very light. My wife uses her macbook for email and internet only while sitting on the couch watching tv

 

[ERD50]

Plus I am not part of the hate MS crowd. Whats the point in that? It is kinda like hating Walmart for pushing prices down via competition.

A bit OT, but ....

What if one were to say they disliked them (hate is a bit strong) for pushing prices UP and eliminating some good products from the market (DR DOS as an early example?) because of illegal, anti-competitive practices?

How has Microsoft lowered prices for anyone? Remember, they make the software, not the hardware. Competition among hardware suppliers has brought prices down, but what about software?

How about a graph of Microsoft's OS prices versus the hardware prices? That would show what competition can do.

I see Amazon lists Vista at $260, $220 and $180 for the Business, Home Premium, and Home Basic.

Apple's new OSX Leopard is $110, and $190 for a 'family 5-pack license'.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

I just purchased a Dell D630. The base price was $849.

.... I am not thrilled with XP Pro. It has more problems than W2K but I guess it was the safer choice over Vista.

I'm really not trying to turn this into a Mac vs PC thread, people can look (if interested) and decide for themselves. But I think it might be worth pointing out that the comments that Apples are more expensive may not hold so much weight these days.

I just looked at that Dell 630, and compared it to the entry level MacBook. When you add the 1G RAM to the Dell (2 SIMMS like the MacBook standard offering), upgrade the processor from 1.8GHz/2MBL2 to the 2.0GHZ/4MBL2, and add Bluetooth that the MacBook has, you end up at $997. The MacBook is $1099, available to many for $999 with edu discount.

One could argue for years (many do!) over this feature versus that feature, the OS, the value of the included iLife apps, the demonstrated lack of virus/spyware issues, ad nauseam. But I will say that each of the last few OS upgrades has been a real positive in the land of Apple. Older hardware actually runs faster on the new OS's. Hopefully Leopard is another solid release, we will see soon.

I'm just saying, if you are interested in an Apple laptop, look at the configurations, compare prices and the features that are important to you. You might not see as big a price delta as you may have been led to expect.

True, there aren't really any 'bargain' models in the Apple laptop lineup, if you are looking for sub $999 laptops from Apple, you would need to look at refurb or used. Just FYI.

-ERD50

 

[Danny]

Thank you everyone for their info - I'm looking at all your suggestions and have not madeup my mind.

A poster wondered how mac could not run on my internet service provider's system - I don't know why - maybe because I'm on the Microsoft Internet Network through Qwest. Don't know how they get away with it...

 

[ERD50]

A poster wondered how mac could not run on my internet service provider's system - I don't know why - maybe because I'm on the Microsoft Internet Network through Qwest. Don't know how they get away with it...

Actually, that is not the case. I thought it sounded odd.

MS simply does not supply their 'special software' to access their network - but the software built into the Mac works just fine, so there really is no need for it:

Microsoft to kill MSN for the Mac | Tech News on ZDNet

Under a deal from years ago with Qwest, Microsoft is required to offer Internet access to Mac users. Therefore, customers will still be able to buy $22-a-month Internet access from Microsoft. However, the company will not offer any local software and customers will have to log on using the Mac's built-in Internet Connect dialer.

-ERD50

 

[Rustic23]

Mac is a good computer, however, it is like saying Beta is a good format. From Techonology.inc.com
Linux -- 1 percent
Mac OS X -- 1 percent
Windows XP -- 71 percent
Windows 2000 -- 20 percent
Windows “other” (primarily Windows 95, 98 and ME) -- 7 percent.

This indicates that 98% of the PC's out there are running a windows based system. So if you were a developer and wanted to get a large share of the market, who would you write for, what system would you study if you were in school?

There will never be an end to the Mac vs Windows debate. If your primary use is web browsing, it is a personal choice.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

For a well built basic machine, I'd go with Dells Vostro. You can buy a very well equipped machine for under $600 most of the time. For something more robust, I'd go with a Dell Latitude. You'll get about 85-90% of a thinkpad build quality for a few hundred less.

Buy them "refurbished" through the dell small business web site. Most of the refurbs are machines people returned after a few days or weeks because it didnt suit them or they bought something else. I've bought several and they all appeared like new, no problems. You can also often buy extended warranties on the refurbed Dells for a lot less, since they've been through QA twice. I wouldnt pay more than $150-200 for an extended warranty though. Buying through the small business site gives you generally better support and usually US based technicians. "Better" being a relative term. I've found that all computer tech support to be pretty darn much worthless. You're left to figure it out on your own, reload the recovery disk, send it in for warranty repair, or throw it out. Anything else is an exercise in frustration.

If you have the option, and Dell will probably give it to you, I'd get XP instead of Vista. I'm still trying to figure out what benefits Vista brings that make up for all the problems.

As an alterntive, Toshibas and Acers arent bad lower end, reasonably well made machines. My last experiences with Compaq and HP werent very good. On the high end, thinkpads are decent but make sure you're getting a thinkpad and not just a plain lenovo machine. Those arent anywhere near as well made but they're decent for a lower end machine.

 

[ladelfina]

Not pertinent to the laptop discussion per se, but PC magazine rated the iMac very highly recently. (After I rinse out enough baggies, I'd love a 24" one).
Apple's Hot Class of 2007 - Apple iMac (20-Inch Aluminum): At A Glance - Reviews by PC Magazine

If you must run a Windows OS you still can:

When I loaded Windows Vista on the iMac using Boot Camp, it showed its stripes as a fast and capable Windows PC.

Once you go mac, you'll never go back, baby! Sincerely, the ease of use, pretty robust design, and (sorry CFB) lack of viruses far outweigh any cost savings. I've never had anything really "break" on a mac after owning 3 for personal use and a dozen or more via work. One dead multi-y.o. HD one time, and a blown modem from a lightning storm is it. When I left my old job, we still had a ci working as a print server. If you want to save pennies, consider a recent vintage refurbished one (certified, under warranty).

Do your due diligence, of course. Best wishes!

 

[ERD50]

This indicates that 98% of the PC's out there are running a windows based system. So if you were a developer and wanted to get a large share of the market, who would you write for, what system would you study if you were in school?

I'm really, really trying to avoid the Mac vs PC debate, but the above information really is not helpful to someone making the decision for their home use.

Rather than infer that there isn't SW available due to those questionable market share stats, why not address the question directly? What software might the user need that they can't get readily on the Mac?

I've seen some very different market share numbers recently anyhow. And how many of those Windows machines are point-of-sale, or kiosk, or industrial or office use, where consumer type apps would not be sold for them anyhow? It seems pretty irrelevant to me. What is relevant is what software would the OP want to use, and is a quality version available at a fair price? Most of what is needed for home use is included in the iLife suite on a Mac.

Or consider this, 30% of students at Harvard are on Macs, 35% of incoming freshman. Other schools are reporting similar stats. Now, do you really think these bright kids that rely on their computers to get their assignments completed, and for fun, are going to risk that high cost education over a computer that doesn't have the software they need? Why? Just because it matches their iPod? Does not add up for me.

FAS Computer Services | 2006-2007 Undergraduate Computing Survey (FAS Computer Services (HASCS))

My kid has had his iBook on the computer network for 3.5 years now, no virus protection at all. zip. No virus/spyware/mallware problems. Don't know a single Mac user that has had a problem like that. A friend of mine that is very anti-Mac was commenting that his virus protection has worked to keep him safe (well, unless the kids download some junk....) - then he complained about all the CPU cycles the protection software was eating up, and how it slows down start up and shutdown times checking for update. So, maybe a 2GHz Mac IS faster than a 2GHz Windows machine?

I don't care what the OP ends up buying, but he asked for input. It should be an informed decision.

Also, OSX being UNIX based (and now POSIX certified), might be a very good thing to learn about in school.


-ERD50

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

If I were an apple shareholder, I'd be pretty mad at the company for putting all that money into patching dozens of vulnerabilities each year and making major OS architectural changes to prevent the viruses they dont have

Asustek and Quanta, who manufacture most windows notebooks, also make the mac notebooks using the same reference designs, the same motherboards, the same disk drives, the same screens, and the same keyboards as many other mid range notebooks that ship with windows. You're paying extra for the apple specific plastic case. imacs and powermacs are built by the same two company's, also from common designs and using common parts.

OS wise, a broad range of objective analyses put OSX roughly on par with Windows for ease of use and features. Having used both extensively, I see no difference until I ran into software products and support restrictions that only supported windows.

 

[ladelfina]

I ran into software products and support restrictions that only supported windows.

yeh. well I find I can easily live without those.
That's what I meant by the due diligence part.
Personally the only thing I can remember in the last few years is running into a problem with a video link to NBC. I'm sure whatever Jay Leno clip was humorous, but not life-altering.

I didn't really want to get into the battle either, but had just come across the glowing PC mag review by chance and thought "hey, that's a sea change."


I'm happy to pay for the nice case.. I'm a girl! (tee hee) I am also thrilled to pay "extra" for Apple to fix stuff behind the scenes if that's the case!!! Why shouldn't I be? Isn't that just an example of Better Customer Service? Isn't it better than me getting bummed out and losing my stuff and having to pay some pimply hacker kid to fix my bolloxed-up machine all the time?

If you've really experienced no viruses ever and no breakage (as I have) over many years and many PC machines then you are one fortunate dude (but I do not feel jealousy or envy or regret. My universe expands to include your PC happiness and satisfaction.. Namaste.)

 

[ERD50]

CFB, if we want to tackle the virus issue, let's start a new thread. It's just going to bore the crowd that wanted some useful info about buying a laptop.

You are back to your argument about 'vulnerabilities' and are ignoring the REALITY that none of those vulnerabilities have been exploited in any significant numbers in the wild.

As an Apple shareholder (a very, very happy one after the earnings report, AAPL has more than DOUBLED YTD), I'm also very happy that they address any vulnerabilities BEFORE they are exploited. No complaints from me.

And before you try the tired old 'market share ' numbers for an explanation of why there are no viruses, think a minute first. By that same logic, there would be NO browsers, NO Office suites, NO word processors, NO Developer's conference, etc, etc.

The last time I asked for examples of actual exploitations, I think you put me on 'ignore'. So, fire away if you wish, but please, start a new thread.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Just a quick (somewhat on-topic) stock market note. I myself am amazed by these numbers:

AAPL market capitalization is now > 2X DELL

AAPL market cap > IBM, HPQ and Intel

AAPL market cap is now more than half of MSFT

There's been some great strides made since Steve Jobs returned in 1997. He brought with him the underpinnings of the MacOS (NextStep), upon which the first internet browser was developed.

WorldWideWeb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-ERD50

 

[CuppaJoe]

...I Or consider this, 30% of students at Harvard are on Macs, 35% of incoming freshman. Other schools are reporting similar stats. Now, do you really think these bright kids that rely on their computers to get their assignments completed, and for fun, are going to risk that high cost education over a computer that doesn't have the software they need? Why? Just because it matches their iPod? Does not add up for me.
....

-ERD50

This jibes with the "bright kids" I deal with, not Harvard folks but working high-level jobs and inventing stuff in Silicon Valley. If I send an e-mail out to three people down in the valley, I assume that at least one of them will need the attachment in an Apple-compatible format.

 

[Rustic23]

There are more PC's in use in the world than there are MAC's. If it were the other way around we would be talking about Steve Jobs as the richest man in the world rather than Bill Gates.

Both machines are good. Both machines will do just fine for a home user. Lot's of school freshman use PC and lots use Mac's. However, your own clever use of statistice i.e. 30% of Harvard students use Macs, leaves out the fact that the other 70% use something else, as darn few Harvard students don't use a computer. So, IMHO, unless you have a specific application that requires a MAC, PC wins out based on the shere number of users. I don't keep up with MAC prices, however, I can get a decent laptop running Windows for under $500, new. I can use Open Office for an office suite, or it will come with Microsoft Works. I can download, for free, almost any utility to accomplish almost any task.

 

[ERD50]

This jibes with the "bright kids" I deal with, not Harvard folks but working high-level jobs and inventing stuff in Silicon Valley. If I send an e-mail out to three people down in the valley, I assume that at least one of them will need the attachment in an Apple-compatible format.

Good point, but I 'gristle' at the term 'Apple-compatible format'.

As I said before, use open formats. Apple users are not looking for an Apple specific format, just open formats that anyone can use, including those that choose Linux, or whatever. If they can't read an open format, that is their problem with the system they chose.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

So, IMHO, unless you have a specific application that requires a MAC, PC wins out based on the shere number of users.

I fail to see why the sheer number of users should be a deciding point for anyone. My choice in cars was not dictated by a popularity contest, but by the make/model that I thought would best fit my needs and price range.

I'm glad we have a choice. If a Windows machine fits your needs best, you've got your answer. One of the reasons that I am so vocal about supporting open formats is so that everyone can have a choice, and not forced to follow the crowd. Be it Mac, Linux, Windows or the next great thing that someone is tinkering with in a laboratory today.

My point regarding 30% (which is less than 70%) is that it is significant enough that there is a software market and software is available. If that were not the case, those Harvard kids would not bother with them - you think they want to carry around a useless CPU, battery, screen and RAM for the heck of it?

-ERD50

 

[kcowan]

I use a PC notebook even though I am an AAPL shareholder. The Macs are fabulous machines (as one son and many friends attest to). I hold AAPL because I believe the iPod/iPhone phenomenon is going to drag more new users to the Mac.

Will they crack the corporate market? I don't know. I notice that Lotus Notes runs on the Mac now. The Macs have fewer price points than the PC. That and software compatibility will be hurdles for sure.

They might have to wait until all those new Mac users get into decision-making positions!

 

[Zathras]

Which notebook?
I would recommend either a Dell Vostro or Macbook.
However, it depends largely on what you want to do with it. I am a game geek, love the newest shooter, so I need a Windows machine. Apple just really dropped the ball with developers decades ago. If you want it for browsing, and the price is comparible, get the Mac. If the Dell is cheaper with the same equipment, get the Dell.

 

[MJ]

Cameras, cellphones, PCs & Laptops, DVD players, etc... become obsolete before the payback for the extra cost of a premium model. In other words, today's premium model is tomorrow's base model ( 2-3 years). Unless there is a specific need that sticks out, I tend to stick with the base model on most electronics.

I bought the Dell D630 and a month later for the same price, they upgraded the hard drive from 80 to 120G and the CD/DVD from 24xCD/RDVD to 8XCD/RWDVD. I wanted to buy these uprades but didn't want to spend another $130. If I had, I would have gotten my money back and would have had the upgrades. Although it was a little more than 30 days, I told them what I had wanted and they gave me a credit of $130 off the price. I also got an additional $50 off because I was not happy with their touchpad so I shaved off $180 off of my $1106 purchase price.

MJ