Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Immigration question
Old 08-24-2008, 12:35 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Immigration question

Hypothetically, suppose a couple who are undocumented immigrants. They work at menial jobs after being in the US for a few years and have small children. However, suppose the hubby has a career history, language and technical skills that would make him very (EXTREMELY) useful to US intelligence efforts, all the moreso given recent world events. Would such folks have a prayer of going to a lawyer and getting anmesty and/or a greencard/citizenship? I believe there used to be a program for non-US citizens to become citizens by enlisting in the US military. Does something like this still exist? How about for the intelligence apparatus?
__________________

__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-24-2008, 01:33 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
I believe there used to be a program for non-US citizens to become citizens by enlisting in the US military. Does something like this still exist? How about for the intelligence apparatus?
I know a lot of this has changed in the last few years, but we used be able to temporarily legalize people we found useful by using something called an S Visa.

Hope that someone else here has better info, because the Immigration and Visa system was a nearly incomprehensible mystery to me. I had an INS guy assigned to my squad and he took care of such things, but even with his knowledge and access it was a series of weird hoop jumps sometimes to get it done. I eventually just got to the point where I asked them to tell me when the guy was legal and stopped trying to figure out the details.

We used the S Visas for intelligence sources, informants and witnesses for criminal cases, but I remember that it was also used for people that had terrorist intelligence information. The request has to come from a law enforcement agency, and the agency is responsible for the alien until he leaves the country or he gets the INS to give him something more permanent. As I recall, we had to regularly renew the Visa every 6 months or annually. There might be longer stays available, but DOJ set the term when they approved the application.

It's been several years since I did this stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a newer program in place in the post 9/11 world. S-Visas were a major hassle to do and I bet there weren't 100 issued in any single year - including family members that were granted the same status if they were immediate family accompanying the useful person we wanted to bring into or keep in the country.

Since they were pretty rare, sometimes the reception within the INS could be weird. My INS guy hated the things, but he followed orders. However, he sometimes made us do strange things. Like the night I had two agents ride the bus from the prison in a bus full of prisoners who had served their time and were being kicked out of the country. Two of them were very useful people that we wanted to bring back in, and our INS guy insisted that they had to leave the US and then re-enter under their S-Visas. The only problem was that the bridge the prison bus uses did not allow re-entry at night. The agents had to travel on foot halfway across the ghetto of some major Mexican border town to get to the right bridge. Running around Mexico with a gun and badge that says US Special Agent rather than Agente Federal is a quick trip to 30 years in the Mexican Bota. When they got there the guy in charge of the POE said, "You didn't have to do all of that. Next time just come see me."
__________________

__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2008, 05:02 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Well now what fun would THAT have been?!?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2008, 07:48 PM   #4
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,460
S visas are still being used. Thing is, the petitioner has to be the target agency or organization. The trick is to get "pre-qualified" before any contact with the INS. Not sure how to do that - need a unique but discreet contact.

Cannot enlist. Only people lawfully residing in the US can enlist - folks with green card or valid visa.

Visa process has changed in over the past 10 years.
- Much longer time to complete
- Many more rejections for trivial reasons (AKA queue management)
- background check is much more rigorous.

Hypothetically, if someone fit this profile and had a friendly relationship with a US business or citizen, the appropriate US Senator or Representative might be of assistance. Immigration casework is one of their top services.
__________________
MichaelB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2008, 08:03 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
The trick is to get "pre-qualified" before any contact with the INS. Not sure how to do that - need a unique but discreet contact.
This is definitely not a case where you get a lawyer and try to do it yourself. Mainly because it's not an INS decision (or USCIS or whatever they call themselves now). The approval comes from main Justice - sort of high up the food chain at DOJ if I remember correctly. The INS (USCIS) had to be in on the loop because the whole thing is in their bailiwick, and while there is some sort of approval process on the immigration side, the real approval comes from DOJ. If somebody sitting unto the right hand of the Attorney General signed off on the paperwork, approval at INS was mostly a formality to dot the I's. At least it was back in the day before DHS, and before INS split into ICE, USCIS, BCIS (and LMNOP ).
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2008, 08:08 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Hmmm, interesting. Thanks for the insight. Any other comments would be of interest.

Sounds like our hypothetical couple would need a well connected lawyer.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2008, 08:57 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
The S non-immigrant visa is still around. I have never dealt with one, however the impression I received is it was for specific criminal issues or intelligence about terrorist organizations. The question, as originally posted, seems to be asking if the person would be able to go to work for an intelligence agency. Generally no. Visa's are only granted outside the US. Without some back door, shady dealings the person is only eligible for deportation. Since we are talking about the intelligence community the back door shady dealings is a possibility. In order for the agency to engage in the back door, shady deal and risk exposure I would think the person of interest would have to be very valuable and would be pursued by the agency, so the question would be pretty much mute.

There is still a program for foreign citizens to gain US citizenship quicker by enlisting in the US military. However the person must meet all requirements of military service for the US. Since this is a military recruiting issue I'm not sure of the details, but being a person illegally in this country would, I'm sure, be disqualifying. All this route does is shorten the residency requirements to become a citizen and does not automatically convey citizenship.

Of course Congress sets the rules and can provide exemptions to any of them.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2008, 10:51 AM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire View Post
...however the impression I received is it was for specific criminal issues or intelligence about terrorist organizations. The question, as originally posted, seems to be asking if the person would be able to go to work for an intelligence agency. Generally no. Visa's are only granted outside the US. Without some back door, shady dealings the person is only eligible for deportation.
Agree with the first part but disagree with the last part.

And this is important for Brewer to know. An S-Visa is not something one goes hunting for, it's more a case of you get invited because you have information that somebody wants and thinks you are the best suited. If the hypothetical individual has good solid information and he can sell himself right motivated guy or gal with a badge, then he has a shot. It would greatly depend on being able to inspire the folks with in law enforcement that the information being offered is going to put some bad people away for a long time and they need continued access to the source of information.

I found this on the USCIS website that explains the different S-Visas.
Quote:
The S visa is granted to Aliens who have agreed to assist the Government in various investigative procedures leading to the arrest of individuals in connection with illegal or terrorist activities.

The two main categories of S visas are S-5 and S-6:

* Application for an S-5 Visa is possible only if the applicant possess reliable information regarding an important aspect of a crime or pending commission of a crime, is willing to share this information with law enforcement officials or to testify in court, and that their presence in the US is necessary to the successful investigation or prosecution of the case.
* Application for an S-6 Visa is possible only if the applicant possesses reliable information regarding an important aspect of a terrorist organization or plot, is willing to share this information with law enforcement officials or to testify in court, has or will be placed in danger for providing that information, and is eligible to receive an award from the State Department for providing such information.

S visa holders are allowed to adjust status to permanent resident under a special provision under Section 245(j) of the US immigration and Nationality Act. If the information supplied by the alien has "substantially contributed" to a successful investigation or prosecution of a crime, they are eligible for adjustment of status. Similarly, if the alien's information "substantially contributed" to the prevention of an act of terrorism, or to the apprehension of a person involved in terrorist activities, they are allowed to adjust their status.
The part I disagree with is that S-Visas are only granted to people outside the US. That's incorrect, or at least it was when I was dealing with them, as most of the people we got S-Visas for were already in the US illegally. We also brought at least one person in, and of course there were the two that rode the bus to the Rio Grande one night. The latter situation only happened because our INS squad mate insisted that the removal (i.e. deportation) had to be carried out, which may or may not have been the case.

After I stopped working in the area where S Visas were a tool that we used, I wound up working with a newer classification of Visas - T, U and V. Which also allow for people already in the US to stay here. Those are limited to victims and witnesses of crimes, most significantly (or what we used them for) human trafficking.

Edit to add: I just found some stats on how many S Visas have been given out over the years and I was right about them being extremely rare. I remember we did five in one year(new or renewals/extensions), and that was 13% of all S Visas issued that year.
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2008, 01:36 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Leonidas--You are correct. The S, T, U, and V are the exceptions. I got that wrong on the darned test at the acadamy and still haven't remembered it. I guess it is a good thing I don't deal with them.
__________________

__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
30 Days: Immigration cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 20 08-01-2006 06:54 PM
illegal immigration - What should be done?......... Cut-Throat Other topics 183 05-23-2006 08:41 AM
Following the Immigration Rules poboy Other topics 0 05-17-2006 10:02 AM
More Joys of Immigration haha Other topics 36 03-10-2006 02:31 PM
Our Immigration Problems are Over?? JPatrick Other topics 15 07-21-2005 09:07 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:33 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.