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Old 02-26-2015, 02:52 PM   #41
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No way would I want my insurance company to know how far or how fast I drive.

I believe in the U.K. this system has allowed insurance companies to raise rates because of the data they see. I don't have any links, but read several articles in print when I was in England last year.
Got me wondering, as we spend a lot of time in the UK, and will be looking to insure a car over there next year. Looks like about 300,000 installed devices, and recent research by Towers Watson shows a typical cut of 20% for young drivers, aged 17 - 23.

Black box telematics drives down car insurance for young drivers*by 500 a year | This is Money


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For reference, there are 30 million drivers in the UK according to the RAC
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Old 02-26-2015, 02:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I think they also record g-forces to track quick stops, swerves and acceleration. But of course, different systems may have different capabilities, I'm just going from memory of when I looked into the State Farm option a few years back.


-ERD50

From what I have read they say you get the beep if you decelerate at 7 mph or greater... but I would bet that it really is a g-force tracker since I have heard the beep when I have made quick turn.... going out one way from my house there is a 90 deg left, a straight the length of a house and a 90 deg right. If you do it quickly... slow down but not fast enough, make the turn, make the next turn and hit the gas it will think that is 'bad driving'.... since the speed has not changed much I think it is measuring the g-force....

but heck, I have an economy car.... my son asked what would happen if someone owned a Corvette or some other sports car I know when I had mine (Firebird) I would take turns about 10 mph faster (or more) than my current car...
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Old 02-26-2015, 03:50 PM   #43
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I think they also record g-forces to track quick stops, swerves and acceleration. But of course, different systems may have different capabilities, I'm just going from memory of when I looked into the State Farm option a few years back.
-ERD50
I would be in big trouble cause when I'm in the newer vette, alone and an open road, I drive stupid. The vette has a G-force gauge. I "test" it to make sure it's working. Most people don't know I have a "need for speed" side. I sometimes test my trucks cornering ability. lol
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:26 PM   #44
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What is this "state vehicle inspection" of which you speak?

I'm so happy to be in a place that dispenses with that foolishness.
Perspectives differ of course. Granted your neighbor was, as my grandma used to say, "not very bright".

However, I'm retired law enforcement and most people on this board have (I hope!) better sense than to drive a car in the conditions that I've seen. I'm talking about four bald tires with cord showing. Wheels held on with only three of the five lug nuts in place. Windows so fogged and crazed/cracked you could hardly see through them. Fenders missing so that in the rain everyone's vision is compromised by wheel spray. Electrical systems so shot not one light worked (and this idiot was driving a flat black car on a country road at night!). Steering so loose the wheel could make an entire turn before it took effect. And the list goes on.... These vehicles were the proverbial "accident going someplace to happen". And half the time someone else got hurt too.

Inevitably the whine was "But I can't afford to fix it!" And my response was that "Then you can't afford a car".

And I am glad we have an annual inspection in WV.
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:35 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Got me wondering, as we spend a lot of time in the UK, and will be looking to insure a car over there next year. Looks like about 300,000 installed devices, and recent research by Towers Watson shows a typical cut of 20% for young drivers, aged 17 - 23.

Black box telematics drives down car insurance for young drivers*by 500 a year | This is Money


ETA

For reference, there are 30 million drivers in the UK according to the RAC
When I was in England a year or so ago, one of the big newspapers had a front page article condemning the tactics by insurers that were raising people's rates based on seeing speeding, etc on these devices. In your link, read the comments to the Watson article. I don't know what papers there are like the Enquirer here, but I may have been reading its sister.

I'm not saying driver monitoring by insurance companies is all about the negative aspects of what they can do to you if they interpret the data their way, but I personally don't wish to have any insurance company monitor my activities 100% of the time (or even 10% of the time).

Routinely, I travel to west Texas where speed limits are 80 - 85 MPH. Sometimes I run it up, so to say, in order to stay with the traffic. I don't wish to be monitored for speed, stopping, whether or not my turn signal is on, etc. I also drive about 25,000 + miles per year.
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:43 PM   #46
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However, I'm retired law enforcement and most people on this board have (I hope!) better sense than to drive a car in the conditions that I've seen. . .
And I am glad we have an annual inspection in WV.
It would be interesting to see a "life-years saved per $" calculation for annual vehicle inspections. I've got to think the payback is very poor compared to other potential uses of that money (seat belt enforcement, speed enforcement, drunk driving enforcement, etc.) And, it would seem many of the more flagrant problems (no fenders, driving at night with one light, etc) could be picked up on the road--you can see a lot of the biggies as a car sits waiting for a light, etc-- thus affecting only the 2% of idiots rather than the 98% of people who know that having all the lug nuts is more than just a "good idea". When I see 4 officers inspecting vehicles, I just think they'd be saving more lives if they were responding to calls about impaired/texting drivers, etc.
How many people get injured in accidents driving their perfectly safe cars to/from inspection stations? How many life-hours dithered away waiting for the car at the inspection shop?
At the very least, we could target cars most likely to be in unsafe condition. For example, any car can get unsafe quickly, but a 15 year old car is more likely to be unroadworthy than one that is 5 years old. (I can hear the screams of protest already -- profiling the poor!)
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:59 PM   #47
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It would be interesting to see a "life-years saved per $" calculation for annual vehicle inspections. I've got to think the payback is very poor compared to other potential uses of that money (seat belt enforcement, speed enforcement, drunk driving enforcement, etc.) And, it would seem many of the more flagrant problems (no fenders, driving at night with one light, etc) could be picked up on the road--you can see a lot of the biggies as a car sits waiting for a light, etc-- thus affecting only the 2% of idiots rather than the 98% of people who know that having all the lug nuts is more than just a "good idea". When I see 4 officers inspecting vehicles, I just think they'd be saving more lives if they were responding to calls about impaired/texting drivers, etc.
How many people get injured in accidents driving their perfectly safe cars to/from inspection stations? How many life-hours dithered away waiting for the car at the inspection shop?
At the very least, we could target cars most likely to be in unsafe condition. For example, any car can get unsafe quickly, but a 15 year old car is more likely to be unroadworthy than one that is 5 years old. (I can hear the screams of protest already -- profiling the poor!)
A lot of state inspections focus on emissions certification as a primary goal. In Texas, it's not a rigorous safety inspection from my years of getting them done. But we don't use law enforcement to run the inspection shops either.

Who we use are technicians that know how to run the emissions machine and do a quick "once over" safety check (lights, tires, does the car stop, windshield condition, wipers, horn, etc).
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:07 PM   #48
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When I was in England a year or so ago, one of the big newspapers had a front page article condemning the tactics by insurers that were raising people's rates based on seeing speeding, etc on these devices. In your link, read the comments to the Watson article. I don't know what papers there are like the Enquirer here, but I may have been reading its sister.

I'm not saying driver monitoring by insurance companies is all about the negative aspects of what they can do to you if they interpret the data their way, but I personally don't wish to have any insurance company monitor my activities 100% of the time (or even 10% of the time).

Routinely, I travel to west Texas where speed limits are 80 - 85 MPH. Sometimes I run it up, so to say, in order to stay with the traffic. I don't wish to be monitored for speed, stopping, whether or not my turn signal is on, etc. I also drive about 25,000 + miles per year.
I don't doubt you at all about reading the article in one of the newspapers, like here many of them like sensational headlines to sell papers, but we know and speak to lots of family and friends and I listen to a BBC podcast twice a week on all these personal finance issues including finding the best deals in car insurance etc. I'd never heard of what you say and couldn't find a link while Googling. With less than 1% of drivers using the devices and a LOT of insurance companies to chose from I think it will be some time before those devices transform from a carrot to a stick when it comes to pricing.

Having one of those devices is not something I would consider for myself, but if they had been an option when my son was 17 to cut the price by 20% on the car he drove then I think I would have gone for it.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:21 PM   #49
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A lot of state inspections focus on emissions certification as a primary goal. In Texas, it's not a rigorous safety inspection from my years of getting them done. But we don't use law enforcement to run the inspection shops either.

Who we use are technicians that know how to run the emissions machine and do a quick "once over" safety check (lights, tires, does the car stop, windshield condition, wipers, horn, etc).
In Tx the content of the inspection depends on the county you live in. In Houston and Dallas and vicinity it includes emmissions, but in the country, more than 1 county away from a major metro its just a safety inspection, checking for example that the lights, turn signals, horn etc, that the brakes will skid tires not worn out, windshield wipers are not shot, etc.
In particular one thing that gets caught that you don't catch is the license plate lamp. (but the inspection station just happens to have bulbs in stock)
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:37 PM   #50
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I don't doubt you at all about reading the article in one of the newspapers, like here many of them like sensational headlines to sell papers, but we know and speak to lots of family and friends and I listen to a BBC podcast twice a week on all these personal finance issues including finding the best deals in car insurance etc. I'd never heard of what you say and couldn't find a link while Googling. With less than 1% of drivers using the devices and a LOT of insurance companies to chose from I think it will be some time before those devices transform from a carrot to a stick when it comes to pricing.

Having one of those devices is not something I would consider for myself, but if they had been an option when my son was 17 to cut the price by 20% on the car he drove then I think I would have gone for it.
I wish I would have saved the U.K. paper as I brought it home to show it DW.

Having raised two daughters, who were not the best teenage drivers, I understand your comment about your son. I guess I am one of those damn Yankees that likes his privacy and maybe that's why I'm so against the monitoring device.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:57 PM   #51
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I wish I would have saved the U.K. paper as I brought it home to show it DW.

Having raised two daughters, who were not the best teenage drivers, I understand your comment about your son. I guess I am one of those damn Yankees that likes his privacy and maybe that's why I'm so against the monitoring device.
Don't worry about the newspaper, there are plenty it could have been.

On a thread hi-jack, I listened to a good interview recently on a Samsung Smart TV that listens to folks in the room talking to better recognize voices for the voice activated commands. However, it also shares the information with 3rd parties, advertisers I assume. When asked, the person being interviewed said that he has the voice control turned off, not because he was concerned over privacy, but that he has the TV connected through external speakers and while watching an episode of Star Trek the TV suddenly changed channel.

Samsung's Smart TV 'surveillance' prompts FTC complaint | PCWorld
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:07 PM   #52
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I just got back from building a Faraday cage around my car. It's better if I can't use the phone while driving, and I have my iPod for a music source. Also installed a rotating license plate as per my old "Poor Man's James Bond". All my data are belong to me.
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Old 02-27-2015, 12:07 AM   #53
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I don't doubt you at all about reading the article in one of the newspapers, like here many of them like sensational headlines to sell papers, but we know and speak to lots of family and friends and I listen to a BBC podcast twice a week on all these personal finance issues including finding the best deals in car insurance etc. I'd never heard of what you say and couldn't find a link while Googling. With less than 1% of drivers using the devices and a LOT of insurance companies to chose from I think it will be some time before those devices transform from a carrot to a stick when it comes to pricing.

Having one of those devices is not something I would consider for myself, but if they had been an option when my son was 17 to cut the price by 20% on the car he drove then I think I would have gone for it.

But the reality is that my sons car got a whopping 1% drop so far... he drives to school in rush hour... and even drives home in rush hour since he goes to the gym.... his trip is a whopping 1.8 miles each way.... so I thought we would get a big discount... Nope, I would not recommend doing this with the little amount of money you will save....
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:50 AM   #54
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+1 We recently moved from Chicago suburb to rural Iowa. I was shocked at how much higher the insurance is in Iowa.
how big of a difference was there?
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Old 02-27-2015, 07:56 AM   #55
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But the reality is that my sons car got a whopping 1% drop so far... he drives to school in rush hour... and even drives home in rush hour since he goes to the gym.... his trip is a whopping 1.8 miles each way.... so I thought we would get a big discount... Nope, I would not recommend doing this with the little amount of money you will save....


I agree, not worth it.
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Old 02-27-2015, 08:07 AM   #56
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So many "old sayings" come to mind when privacy discussions come up. "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you." is a personal favorite, but my tag line is what I live by. YMMV
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Old 02-27-2015, 02:15 PM   #57
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It would be interesting to see a "life-years saved per $" calculation for annual vehicle inspections. I've got to think the payback is very poor compared to other potential uses of that money (seat belt enforcement, speed enforcement, drunk driving enforcement, etc.)
No argument there. Apparently in Ohio they have state-run inspections done by state employees? They are in MD where we used to live but those were for emissions only, at least then and if you picked a time outside of rush hours it took ~10 minutes. In WV local service/repair shops do the safety inspections, a light one for wipers, lights, brake pad wear, tire tread, windows intact, etc. It takes about 15 minutes and they charge ~$12 for it.

MD does have a rigorous inspection for used cars changing owners outside of a family. Anything that can pass a MD used car inspection is worth at least $2k. This one gets into steering rod play, wheel bearing play, etc - more at the level of a safety inspection done at the aviation level and takes about an hour. I think it is a good inspection and wish more states would do it, that keeps the unsafe "clunkers" from being passed around. Those inspections are also done at local service/repair shops. The penalties for "passing" an unqualified vehicle or failing to pass a qualified vehicle to sell service/parts are severe. In addition to civil fines the owner of the shop can find himself in jail on theft charges if they falsify findings to sell parts or services not needed.
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Old 02-27-2015, 02:57 PM   #58
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I always found the MD used car inspection to just be a scam to create business for the car repair shops. I tried twice to sell perfectly good cars to a friend's son, but the MD inspection would have required us to pay thousands of dollars in truly unnecessary repair in order to sell him the car for about $1K. These were both cars that ran well, passed VA inspections easily, had no serious issues other than being older. And were in much better shape than a lot of what is on the roads in MD every day. Scam, nothing more.
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