Info on recycling plastics

[Brat]

It's complicated. Read the following: https://phys.org/news/2017-12-truth-bioplastics.html

I think that the research by Kartik Chandran at Columbia is the most interesting when considering the life-cycle of plastics.

[Chuckanut]

Recycling plastic may not be the way to deal with excess plastic in the environment.

Plastic is a petroleum product. What may be needed is to go the next step and burn it to produce electrical energy. It just makes sense. Switzerland has started to do this. And, of course, simply stop using products that require a lot of plastic - cases of bottled water, K-cups, etc.

https://waste-management-world.com/a...tics-recycling

Emphasis added:

Quote:

Our study concludes that the collection of mixed plastic waste does generate a marginal ecological benefit at unreasonably high costs. But plastics recycling is not only inefficient, it is also quite ineffective. In Switzerland, the annual environmental benefit per capita would be equivalent to saving 30 kilometres of car driving or eating one barbecue-steak less. Note that in countries with a controlled waste management system around 99% of the total environmental damage caused by the manufacture, consumption and disposal of a plastic-packed product is caused by the product itself. Only 1% is caused by the disposal of its packaging. Instead of introducing ever more intricate and costly schemes for reducing the 1% waste-related environmental damage of plastic packaging, it would be more productive to tackle the task of reducing the 99% consumption-related environmental impact.

[mpeirce]

This study concluded that plastic recycling produces a marginal benefit at "unreasonably high costs". Hard to disagree with their conclusions.

But my question is that if you want to sequester carbon, it seems like a simple way to so would be to take solid, chemically stable carbon compounds (i.e. plastic) and bury them under clay. Given that this is an anaerobic environment (low oxygen) the carbon would be sequestered for many centuries if not longer.

[Lawrencewendall]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack The new mantra/reality for residential recycling is "when in doubt, throw it out" - meaning don't throw anything in your recycling that you're not absolutely certain is recyclable. And if it's not reasonably clean, don't put it in recycling. If it's a single use plastic bag, styrofoam, coffee cup lid, solo cup, clear plastic cup, food or cling wrap or any thin/light plastic - please don't put it in your recycling!

Our county is the exact opposite. They say if you're not sure, put it in. If we get enough of whatever product, we'll find a market for it. No sorting either.

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock Its not "locked up" in a landfill. Landfills just have a few feet of clay on top and thats not until they are actually closed after decades of use. The fermenting garbage creates pressure. To sequester CO2 its gotta be pumped way under ground like into old oil wells that can hold pressure.

Landfill degradation of organics in garbage creates methane (natural gas). Modern landfills are built to collect that methane and use it for beneficial uses, generally as a fuel source.

Also, modern landfills are constructed with a leachate collection system to capture and collect liquids that could migrate into groundwater beneath the landfill. These collected liquids are generally taken from landfill sites to be properly disposed of at a water treatment facility, if necessary.

[Rianne]

I now feel the need to put recyclables into the dishwasher. It's more efficient than me trying wash out the extra food. I'd waste more water washing recycled items. I now worry, are we wasting water or creating too much garbage. A never ending cycle of waste.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrencewendall Our county is the exact opposite. They say if you're not sure, put it in. If we get enough of whatever product, we'll find a market for it. No sorting either.

Wonder where, UK, MD, other - and are you sure you’re current? They were all saying that, but the recycling landscape changed radically about a year ago, and many industry people didn’t notice until they had so many bales of sorted recycling stacking up that they had to take them to landfills. Many consciously chose (or still choose), not to tell customers for fear they’d get out of the habit of recycling at all.

[Spock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 Landfill degradation of organics in garbage creates methane (natural gas). Modern landfills are built to collect that methane and use it for beneficial uses, generally as a fuel source. Also, modern landfills are constructed with a leachate collection system to capture and collect liquids that could migrate into groundwater beneath the landfill. These collected liquids are generally taken from landfill sites to be properly disposed of at a water treatment facility, if necessary.

Try telling that to the person who sued me for selling a house with a well near a landfill.

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock Try telling that to the person who sued me for selling a house with a well near a landfill.

I did say modern landfills. Older ones (and there were plenty of them) were not designed this way and, like you experienced, could easily create well water contamination issues. Sorry to hear about your experience, and hope you came out OK.

[Lawrencewendall]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack Wonder where, UK, MD, other - and are you sure you’re current? They were all saying that, but the recycling landscape changed radically about a year ago, and many industry people didn’t notice until they had so many bales of sorted recycling stacking up that they had to take them to landfills. Many consciously chose (or still choose), not to tell customers for fear they’d get out of the habit of recycling at all.

AA county, MD. What’s ironic is that neighboring Howard county has a state of the art recycling center that was featured on modern marvels and has a terrible program.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrencewendall AA county, MDf. What’s ironic is that neighboring Howard county has a state of the art recycling center that was featured on modern marvels and has a terrible program.

I’m surprised but I looked at the AA recycling website and it certainly supports what you’re saying. This article suggests that Montgomery County in MD may send sorted recycling to domestic sites, avoiding the China National Sword issue. Maybe other MD counties do as well. https://www.citylab.com/environment/...change/584665/

I still hope we can move more people to reduce and reuse first and recycling second, but I’m not optimistic (yet).

[imoldernu]

No question that the members here are well informed, schooled and intelligent beyond the "average" person, and yet the subject is anything but clear cut or understandable.

I wonder that with all of the emphasis on global warming, dying oceans, environmental damage, and the like, that this subject is not in the forefront of education. Not taught in schools, very little attention in the news, and little government support.

A single thing that the average citizen could do that would have relatively little cost, with great results. Yes, we have hundreds of individual projects to save the environment as this
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn.../#1b1e7b7d2738

... but why not an education program... benefits for taking recycling class...
public school, imagination to make it worthwhile.

More like... too late...what the hell!

[Spock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by imoldernu No question that the members here are well informed, schooled and intelligent beyond the "average" person, and yet the subject is anything but clear cut or understandable. I wonder that with all of the emphasis on global warming, dying oceans, environmental damage, and the like, that this subject is not in the forefront of education. Not taught in schools, very little attention in the news, and little government support. A single thing that the average citizen could do that would have relatively little cost, with great results. Yes, we have hundreds of individual projects to save the environment as this https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn.../#1b1e7b7d2738 ... but why not an education program... benefits for taking recycling class... public school, imagination to make it worthwhile. More like... too late...what the hell!

Kids are already completely indoctrinated. Earth Day was just last week.
Its adults that make the product choices.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock Kids are already completely indoctrinated. Earth Day was just last week. Its adults that make the product choices.

Given that many of the indoctrinated have already become adults it must not be working very well

OTOH, as was pointed out, it’s not the same in this highly educated society as it is in the rest of the world. I think we’re doing pretty well but the majority of the rest of the world is struggling with disposal of waste.

Agree with the reduce and reuse concept. In the US, we certainly do have issues with our per capital use of the things we have issues with like plastics and electronic waste.

[Winemaker]

The problem is we have a new boogie man every 10 years; everyone has their own soft spot/idea/thought process. Members on this forum can't decide when to take SS after hundreds of articles/discussions/opinions. Why would we expect anything different about food choices or even garbage/recycling efforts. We all try to do what is right by our own point of view, and frankly I'm tired of some politician shoving their opinion/mandate down my throat. I believe NY City is going to ban processed meats to attack climate change.

[Lawrencewendall]

My understanding is that any landfill in the county needs to create a lake bed that has a 6" wall of clay on all sides to prevent seepage and and methane vents to extract the gasses produced. Don't see them harvesting the the gas but it seems so to be working. Oh Mo Co is NOT MD!.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by imoldernu ...........More like... too late...what the hell!

Sadly, this seems to be the prevailing sentiment. I'll check out within the next 30 years, but sad for the next generations.

[USGrant1962]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winemaker The problem is we have a new boogie man every 10 years; everyone has their own soft spot/idea/thought process. Members on this forum can't decide when to take SS after hundreds of articles/discussions/opinions. Why would we expect anything different about food choices or even garbage/recycling efforts. We all try to do what is right by our own point of view, and frankly I'm tired of some politician shoving their opinion/mandate down my throat. I believe NY City is going to ban processed meats to attack climate change.

+1

[John Galt III]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack +1. Indeed. I watch people in stores walk out with one or two items in a single use plastic bag. Why? I am glad some municipalities are outlawing or having merchants charge for single use plastic water bottles, plastic bags, straws, etc. Can't come too soon for me. YMMV

A lot of places will ask me if I want a bag if I am only buying one thing. I say no, of course. Two grocery stores I go to are 'bring your own bag' places. Aldi and PriceRite.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt III A lot of places will ask me if I want a bag if I am only buying one thing. I say no, of course. Two grocery stores I go to are 'bring your own bag' places. Aldi and PriceRite.

I get a bag. I used to not get a bag but then I dropped something and won’t do that again. I was at HD and got a couple light bulbs. You know how they are in a sleeve of two? Well, on of the slipped out and shattered on the ground. Since I use the bag as a garbage can liner, I feel okay with putting that one item in the bag to prevent my clumsiness in the future.