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Old 10-14-2011, 08:18 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by donheff View Post
Anger at the structure and abuses (spiking, etc) of pensions makes sense to me but we are also back to the argument that teachers are overpaid. Maybe I am wrong but it feels like many people who complain about teacher salaries are all about the market when it comes to entertainers, athletes, executives, etc. Why not wait for Mr. Market to straighten things out? We are in a period of turmoil and uncertainty. Suddenly people who a few years ago were described as risk averse government drones willing to work for low wages to secure modest lifetime income guarantees are now viewed as vastly overpaid, pampered rich kids. Today there are lines to get teaching jobs and other government jobs. This too shall pass.
I don't really want the thread to derail into that area, it always ends badly. But your analogy is very, very flawed. Yes, you are wrong.

I can choose (and I most usually do) to not go to football games, not buy NFL t-shirts, not go to certain concerts, or not buy certain CDs etc. I cannot choose not to pay my property tax.

The teachers union is powerful enough that 'free market' simply does not apply. Why do higher demand math and science teachers get the same pay as teachers in high supply subjects? That says it all - that is not the free market at work. Do all NFL or entertainers get the same starting pay?

And for the record, I never 'complain' about teacher salaries directly. I only complain that there is not a free market for teacher salaries.

-ERD50
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:31 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I don't really want the thread to derail into that area, it always ends badly. But your analogy is very, very flawed. Yes, you are wrong.

I can choose (and I most usually do) to not go to football games, not buy NFL t-shirts, not go to certain concerts, or not buy certain CDs etc. I cannot choose not to pay my property tax.

The teachers union is powerful enough that 'free market' simply does not apply. Why do higher demand math and science teachers get the same pay as teachers in high supply subjects? That says it all - that is not the free market at work. Do all NFL or entertainers get the same starting pay?

And for the record, I never 'complain' about teacher salaries directly. I only complain that there is not a free market for teacher salaries.

-ERD50
Fair enough and I agree to a point. I was about to start nit picking but I completely agree with your first sentence and should probably not have ventured in this direction.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:25 AM   #83
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The inequities are even more noticeable in small, far downstate communities, where the median household income is a little over $30K, and all the teachers live in the gated subdivision with the doctors and lawyers.

It wasn't always this way. My old high school principal is 85 years old and draws a $28K pension, and lives in the same modest house he did 40 years ago.

Maybe teachers were underpaid for a long time, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way now.

The recently retired ones I know, wear those pensions like a badge of honor, and look down on those of lesser fortune.
I understand your concern on local public salaries being way out of line with the community in general. Maybe it's different in your location, but where I'm at locally depressed areas usually results in lower pay. In fact a neighboring district has a first year teacher salary right around that $28k mark. Appearances can sometimes be misleading. Some teachers I have known draw 2 paychecks at the same time to live their above average lifestyle. One being their work check and the other being their cash advance checks from their other employer, Visa
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:31 AM   #84
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When I think of insane and Illinois, I think of the Eden at rush hour..........
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