'Insane' even by Illinois standards?

[GregLee]

The inequities are even more noticeable in small, far downstate communities, where the median household income is a little over $30K, and all the teachers live in the gated subdivision with the doctors and lawyers.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. It's inequitable for a teacher to live in a gated subdivision? What equities are involved? Does that even make any sense?

 

[BLS53]

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. It's inequitable for a teacher to live in a gated subdivision? What equities are involved? Does that even make any sense?

The subdivision is just an anecdote and isn't the issue. The issue in Illinois is the overly generous salaries and pensions, that allow working stiff teachers to live an increasingly opulent lifestyle.

The inequity is between the taxpayers and the teachers. And the fact that all government entities involved are broke, while the teachers get richer.

Not to mention the local district continually fails to meet learning achievement standards, and the teens coming out of the high school are a step above animal life. But I digress.

 

[chinaco]

It sure make one wonder. Hopefully someone digs deep to find out if there was some sort of Quid Pro Quo for some considerations or favors.

Is it a case of political and bureaucratic corruption?

IMO - It deserves some attention from the Justice Dept and FBI!

 

[donheff]

Anger at the structure and abuses (spiking, etc) of pensions makes sense to me but we are also back to the argument that teachers are overpaid. Maybe I am wrong but it feels like many people who complain about teacher salaries are all about the market when it comes to entertainers, athletes, executives, etc. Why not wait for Mr. Market to straighten things out? We are in a period of turmoil and uncertainty. Suddenly people who a few years ago were described as risk averse government drones willing to work for low wages to secure modest lifetime income guarantees are now viewed as vastly overpaid, pampered rich kids. Today there are lines to get teaching jobs and other government jobs. This too shall pass.

 

[ERD50]

It sure make one wonder. Hopefully someone digs deep to find out if there was some sort of Quid Pro Quo for some considerations or favors.

Is it a case of political and bureaucratic corruption?

It is no wonder, and it takes no digging to figure out if this was Quid Pro Quo for some considerations or favors or a case of political and bureaucratic corruption. It undoubtedly was.

That arrangement is allowed under a state law signed by Gov. Jim Thompson on his last day in office in 1991, ...

Now, making the connections to prove anything is a whole 'nother matter. Recall that it took two trials (the first was a hung jury on all but one count) to find former Governor Blago guilty of using his influence inappropriately, even though they had numerous tapes of him referring to the Senate seat vacated by Pres Obama as:

Quoting the Blagojevich Complaint: Chicagoist
(edits mine)

“I’ve got this thing and it’s (eff-ing) golden, and, uh, uh, I’m just not giving it up for (eff-ing) nothing. I’m not gonna do it. And, and I can always use it. I can parachute me there.” (pg 59)
ROD BLAGOJEVICH said that the consultants (Advisor B and another consultant are believed to be on the call at that time) are telling him that he has to "suck it up" for two years and do nothing and give this "(m-effer) [the President-elect] his senator. (Eff) him. For nothing? (Eff) him." '

IMO - It deserves some attention from the Justice Dept and FBI!

Agree, and I hope they could alter those pensions. But I doubt they have anything on tape, they don't have Gov Thompson saying that these pension changes are 'effen Golden', so I don't expect anything to happen. I don't think this is on the protesters list though.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Anger at the structure and abuses (spiking, etc) of pensions makes sense to me but we are also back to the argument that teachers are overpaid. Maybe I am wrong but it feels like many people who complain about teacher salaries are all about the market when it comes to entertainers, athletes, executives, etc. Why not wait for Mr. Market to straighten things out? We are in a period of turmoil and uncertainty. Suddenly people who a few years ago were described as risk averse government drones willing to work for low wages to secure modest lifetime income guarantees are now viewed as vastly overpaid, pampered rich kids. Today there are lines to get teaching jobs and other government jobs. This too shall pass.

I don't really want the thread to derail into that area, it always ends badly. But your analogy is very, very flawed. Yes, you are wrong.

I can choose (and I most usually do) to not go to football games, not buy NFL t-shirts, not go to certain concerts, or not buy certain CDs etc. I cannot choose not to pay my property tax.

The teachers union is powerful enough that 'free market' simply does not apply. Why do higher demand math and science teachers get the same pay as teachers in high supply subjects? That says it all - that is not the free market at work. Do all NFL or entertainers get the same starting pay?

And for the record, I never 'complain' about teacher salaries directly. I only complain that there is not a free market for teacher salaries.

-ERD50

 

[donheff]

I don't really want the thread to derail into that area, it always ends badly. But your analogy is very, very flawed. Yes, you are wrong.

I can choose (and I most usually do) to not go to football games, not buy NFL t-shirts, not go to certain concerts, or not buy certain CDs etc. I cannot choose not to pay my property tax.

The teachers union is powerful enough that 'free market' simply does not apply. Why do higher demand math and science teachers get the same pay as teachers in high supply subjects? That says it all - that is not the free market at work. Do all NFL or entertainers get the same starting pay?

And for the record, I never 'complain' about teacher salaries directly. I only complain that there is not a free market for teacher salaries.

-ERD50

Fair enough and I agree to a point. I was about to start nit picking but I completely agree with your first sentence and should probably not have ventured in this direction.

 

[Mulligan]

The inequities are even more noticeable in small, far downstate communities, where the median household income is a little over $30K, and all the teachers live in the gated subdivision with the doctors and lawyers.

It wasn't always this way. My old high school principal is 85 years old and draws a $28K pension, and lives in the same modest house he did 40 years ago.

Maybe teachers were underpaid for a long time, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way now.

The recently retired ones I know, wear those pensions like a badge of honor, and look down on those of lesser fortune.

I understand your concern on local public salaries being way out of line with the community in general. Maybe it's different in your location, but where I'm at locally depressed areas usually results in lower pay. In fact a neighboring district has a first year teacher salary right around that $28k mark. Appearances can sometimes be misleading. Some teachers I have known draw 2 paychecks at the same time to live their above average lifestyle. One being their work check and the other being their cash advance checks from their other employer, Visa

 

[FinanceDude]

When I think of insane and Illinois, I think of the Eden at rush hour..........