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Old 02-16-2008, 09:02 PM   #21
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It would be interesting if some of the Obamites could get beyond feeling sorry for the poor souls that don't see it their way and tell us something that Obama is likely to do for us, other than raise taxes and talk pretty.

So far the ad hominem attacks on this board have come from the Obamites, not from the agnostics.

FYI, I am getting tired of back-handed passive-agressive crap directed at me.

Ha

Ha:

No passive-aggressive attack on you here. If you want to have it out, I am willing to do so openly and forthrightly. For you and those others who mumble about "lack of substance", I would suggest you look at his website barackobama.com, under "issues". If you want to debate a specific position he has taken, count me in (Although I don't agree with all of his positions). If you merely want pablum handed to you, listen to the Republicans and Hillary.
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Old 02-17-2008, 06:31 AM   #22
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How sad to have grown so old and cynical.
Yes, I am a cynic when it comes to politics and religion. My remark however has nothing to do with either.
That video compilation of discordant images and sounds is as nauseating as staring into a strobe light while surrounded by people shouting random phrases into your ears. Any content escaped me as it was simply too excruciating to watch.
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:20 AM   #23
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It would be interesting if some of the Obamites could get beyond feeling sorry for the poor souls that don't see it their way and tell us something that Obama is likely to do for us, other than raise taxes and talk pretty.
Who knows? When is the last time a president actually carried out their campain promises? It is always a crap shoot. Policy proclamations mean very little, so there is not much to go on besides perceived character. What are you going to do?

For that matter, all 3 of the major candidates are currently senators, so if they have any brilliant policy ideas, they are well-positioned to try to enact them into law now, without waiting for the uncertain outcome of a presidential election. Are any of them acting on their stated principles now?
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:38 AM   #24
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Yes, I am a cynic when it comes to politics and religion. My remark however has nothing to do with either.
That video compilation of discordant images and sounds is as nauseating as staring into a strobe light while surrounded by people shouting random phrases into your ears. Any content escaped me as it was simply too excruciating to watch.
Sorry. My misunderstanding. I found it helpful to read the text printed next to it.
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:40 AM   #25
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Who knows? When is the last time a president actually carried out their campain promises? It is always a crap shoot. Policy proclamations mean very little, so there is not much to go on besides perceived character. What are you going to do?

For that matter, all 3 of the major candidates are currently senators, so if they have any brilliant policy ideas, they are well-positioned to try to enact them into law now, without waiting for the uncertain outcome of a presidential election. Are any of them acting on their stated principles now?
And, frankly, I think we are going to see our taxes raised regardless of who the next president is. We have gotten to the point where there is no other alternative.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:20 AM   #26
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Since someone else brought up Hitler.....here is a website devoted to cats who look like him: Cats That Look Like Hitler!
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File Type: jpg hitler_cats.jpg (27.6 KB, 78 views)
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:26 AM   #27
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Pure Rhetoric set to music to try to suck you into the feeling that he is paving a new way. Let's keep our heads about us. This guy is a politician. Singing Kumbaya does not convince me that he is the best choice for the job.

I am not ready to drink the Obama Koolaide! He is a question mark that came out of nowhere! He will have to convince me to vote for him. He has an uphill job to convince me to do so.

Obama was tagged as the most Liberal Democrat in the Senate. Translated to mean more government programs and taxes. Of course none of those programs will be targeted to the middle class... anyone on this board.

Remember, Obama only has about 1/4 of the voters leaning his way. Hillary and the Republicans has the other 3/4. My numbers may be a bit off... But this race is far from decided. Most voters are undecided.

At this point some are thinking he will deliver change. He might, but will the change be the type of change you want?

I fear a whole bunch of new government social programs being created that we all will pay for. Remember taxing corporations heavily will hit the bottom line and drive right through to the performance of your investments.

When Al Sharpton began backing Obama... Well, that hit a nerve. Maybe he will pick Al Sharpton as a Vice Presidential running mate. Of course he won't... That would be too revealing.

I intend to vote for someone that is a bit more predictable (and he is still an unknown). Plus, I am voting my wallet... not some fantasy or hope that this guy will have Middle Class American's best interest in mind. Right now my thoughts are that his only concern for middle class america is to tax the $h!t out of us to pay for a bunch of new social programs.

One thing is absolutely for sure. If he wins, we will find out.
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:34 PM   #28
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Little brother, I have forgotten more than you will ever know.

Ha

Ha, I am sure you are correct. But the true measure of an individual is not how much he has forgotten, but how he leads his life based on what he remembers.

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So far the ad hominem attacks on this board have come from the Obamites, not from the agnostics.
My attack was not ad hominem and I am not an Obamite. I also have little tolerance for "political correctness." But some comparisons, even if innocently made, are wrong and need to be challenged. Ha, I have enjoyed many of your posts on this board and look forward to hearing much more from you. I am sorry if you (and others) do not understand why your statement was wrong.

You end your posts with a quote from Voltaire. Let me offer you another of his: "Prejudice is opinion without judgment."
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:44 PM   #29
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Anyone seen film of Hitler rallies in the 30s?

Now Lil Adolphe was truly an inspirational speaker, with beaucoup charisma. The young folks loved him; they even wore special brown shirts to show their love.

Didn't work out too well for anyone; and I doubt this one will either.

If Obama wins the absolute best possibility is that my taxes go up, my standard of living goes down, and nothing else happens.

I vote for Donald Duck!

Ha
This is an utterly ridiculous and inflammatory statement. You should be banned from the forum for such a statement!!! What's your point? There has been numerous inspirational and eloquent leaders right here in this country so to liken Obama to Hitler is absolutely nasty. What's your point? Why not liken Kennedy to Hitler? Bask in your success and worry that your high income may be taxed just a wee bit to fund some of the health for the millions of unemployed. What a Jerk!!!
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:03 PM   #30
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I'm just amazed at how many have digested soundbites about Barack Obama just being "fluffy talk". I wonder how many have actually gone to his website, Welcome to Obama for America and downloaded and READ the 64 page plan of his position on issues and how he intends to achieve those goals.

Words.......he said something yesterday that I thought interesting.....so many words....words like

I have a dream.......

That we hold these truths to be self evident......

We have nothing to fear but fear itself........

Yep.....words......useless in actually accomplishing something....NOT.

LooseChickens
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:05 PM   #31
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You end your posts with a quote from Voltaire. Let me offer you another of his: "Prejudice is opinion without judgment."
You just won't let up. I guess you don't understand the meaning of ad hominem. I don't want ot get my butt banned, but you are getting annoying, like a horsefly on a summer day.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:06 PM   #32
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I'm posting again, because it wouldn't let me edit to add this.

It may come as a surprise to you HA, (and others), but there are many of us, even those of us with seven figure portfolios, who do not fear paying taxes, want to support our societies, our schools, our libraries and yes, health care for all.

Sometimes, people actually feel they have enough, and are willing to help others. Strange prospect, huh?

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Old 02-17-2008, 01:09 PM   #33
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speaking as a bleeding heart on my sleeve liberal--oh, what the hell, i might as well play both the jewish & gay cards while i'm at it--i absolutely see ha's point on this and i do not for one moment buy the obama blitz. i was stunned by the kennedy endorsement. the whole thing reeks to me of puppeteerism and frankly it makes me a little nervous to see how people can be so easily swayed by a campaign staged as well as a music video.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:49 PM   #34
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This is an utterly ridiculous and inflammatory statement. You should be banned from the forum for such a statement!!! What's your point? There has been numerous inspirational and eloquent leaders right here in this country so to liken Obama to Hitler is absolutely nasty. What's your point? Why not liken Kennedy to Hitler? Bask in your success and worry that your high income may be taxed just a wee bit to fund some of the health for the millions of unemployed. What a Jerk!!!


Amigo, you are doing the ad hominem boogie. If the moderators are listening, they might consider warning you. I didn't call you a jerk, and I won't here. If you need to come at me like this, you must be out of relevant rational statements to make. Or you really are feeling like your man doesn't have much substantive to be said about him.

In America, as far as I know, you don't ban political speech, especially when true. What I said was absolutely true. I didn't say Obama was the moral equivalent of Hitler. That would take some doing for sure. We don't really know much about Obama, as the Germans didn't really know much about Hitler. But what I cited is a simple fact. They both came out of nowhere with powerful speaking abilities, the ability to marshal charisma and personal power and a message for hope and change to a nation feeling kind of battered

But Adolph captivated a country every bit as sophisticated and advanced as ours, if not more so. He was not the product of a military overthrow. His platform was very attractive, hope, social justice, and other familiar sounding themes from this years primary campaign. What is Hillary complaining about all the time? That Obama talks pretty and says nothing of substance. Clearly he is well coached, as the best approach to the idiot American electorate is to smile, be tall, and not say anything or have done anything that your opponents could focus on during the campaign. I find hilarious the offering of Oba's "experience" in the Illinois State Legislature as meaningful experience making someone suitable to be a president of the United States.

If he is so good, wouldn't he still be good eight years from now when is no longer an act of faith and desperate hope? The Dems are likely to win; how would Obama be better than Hillary? Hillary does have a history. Obama has a website.

I didn't say anything about Obama and anti-Semitism, because I don't know anything about that. Though the Louis Farrakhan connection might be worrisome to some.

Republicans have had to listen to their leaders being called fascists for years.

As to your slap at my concern for increased taxes- at least I have interests in the election more real than "hope". I donít look to politics to give my life meaning. That I can keep them just a little bit out of my pocket is all I ever expect.

I cede hope to you, amigo; I'll take something more substantial.

BTW, if you are interested in some parallels between modern US style liberalism and the National Socialism of Germany, a good recent book by an LA Times reporter is Liberal Fascism by Eli Goldberg. But I don't imagine you have time for investigating what you are spouting about; just time for attacking me.

Ha
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:51 PM   #35
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I'm posting again, because it wouldn't let me edit to add this.

It may come as a surprise to you HA, (and others), but there are many of us, even those of us with seven figure portfolios, who do not fear paying taxes, want to support our societies, our schools, our libraries and yes, health care for all.

Sometimes, people actually feel they have enough, and are willing to help others. Strange prospect, huh?

LooseChickens
Here you go if you want to put your money where your mouth is...

How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?

Make your check payable to the Bureau of the Public Debt, and in the memo section, notate that it is a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau Of the Public Debt
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:58 PM   #36
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I'm posting again, because it wouldn't let me edit to add this.

It may come as a surprise to you HA, (and others), but there are many of us, even those of us with seven figure portfolios, who do not fear paying taxes, want to support our societies, our schools, our libraries and yes, health care for all.

Sometimes, people actually feel they have enough, and are willing to help others. Strange prospect, huh?

LooseChickens
Still, it's Obamites on the attack! Must be something powerful in that cool aide!

It may come as a surprise to you, Mr. or Mrs. Loose Chicken, that some of us are quite capable of helping others without having the government force the method and the amount. Ever hear of churches? Of private philanthropies? And you are welcome to do whatever you want with your magnificent 7 figures, I respect your judgment on that. Nothing prevents you from giving a little lagniappe to Uncle S.

Enjoy your hate.

Ha
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:04 PM   #37
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I'm just amazed at how many have digested soundbites about Barack Obama just being "fluffy talk". I wonder how many have actually gone to his website, Welcome to Obama for America and downloaded and READ the 64 page plan of his position on issues and how he intends to achieve those goals.

Words.......he said something yesterday that I thought interesting.....so many words....words like

I have a dream.......

That we hold these truths to be self evident......

We have nothing to fear but fear itself........

Yep.....words......useless in actually accomplishing something....NOT.

LooseChickens
What do you know about this man other than words on a site and a few speeches?

He has very little track record. Hillary had it right when she said that she has been vetted.

People know Clinton and McCain. Obama can say anything... because he has little to no track record.

Q: What is the quickest way for the Democratic party to jeopardize the 2008 election?
A: Endorse an unknown.

We are independents.

I have not made my mind up yet.

DW says she is voting for Hillary. If Hillary doesn't make it to the General Election, she says she is voting for McCain. Will she change her mind closer to the election? Possibly, but I doubt it.
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:00 PM   #38
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(putting on moderator hat) Can we all please remember that we are among friends here? It is possible for us to disagree without being disagreeable. Let us not resort to ad hominem attacks and insults. I hereby chastise myself for my remark to cantlogin.

(taking off moderator hat)

For me, the choice now is relatively easy. I long ago made the decision that I would never vote for anyone who supported the war. McCain seems truly to have believed and still believes that the Iraq war was and is necessary. I think he is wrong, so I won't vote for him, but I respect his belief. Clinton's vote to authorize the war was, in my opinion, nothing but political posturing. She saw which way the wind was blowing, knew that she would eventually run for president and did not want to be seen as weak on defense, so she voted in favor. It is telling that she never read the NIE. It is one thing to be honest but mistaken in taking the nation to war. It is quite another to send the children of others to die in order to serve your own political ambition. I find that unforgivable. I believe that Clinton's action in this regard should trouble even those who support the war.

As far as their positions on various issues go, I acknowledge that Clinton and Obama are very close. I also recognize that I do not agree with either of them on everything. If anything, I think Obama is not liberal enough. In any event, as others have pointed out, there is always a wide gulf between what a candidate has for aspirations and what actually can be accomplished once in Washington. But Obama is the only one talking about what I believe is really important -- we must fix the process and we must all work together to do so. We cannot afford to retreat back to the politics of personal destruction so rampant in the last 20 years. Unless we bring this nation together, all the policies in the world will not solve our problems. The people are ready for a change, and, no, it can't wait another eight years.

Those who say McCain and Clinton have a record are right, they do. But neither one is something I would be proud of (caveat - I'm not talking about McCain's service in the Navy, only his time as a Senator).
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Old 02-17-2008, 04:20 PM   #39
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I didn't say Obama was the moral equivalent of Hitler. That would take some doing for sure. We don't really know much about Obama, as the Germans didn't really know much about Hitler. But what I cited is a simple fact. They both came out of nowhere with powerful speaking abilities, the ability to marshal charisma and personal power and a message for hope and change to a nation feeling kind of battered

If he is so good, wouldn't he still be good eight years from now when is no longer an act of faith and desperate hope? The Dems are likely to win; how would Obama be better than Hillary? Hillary does have a history. Obama has a website.

I didn't say anything about Obama and anti-Semitism, because I don't know anything about that. Though the Louis Farrakhan connection might be worrisome to some.

Republicans have had to listen to their leaders being called fascists for years.

BTW, if you are interested in some parallels between modern US style liberalism and the National Socialism of Germany, a good recent book by an LA Times reporter is Liberal Fascism by Eli Goldberg. But I don't imagine you have time for investigating what you are spouting about; just time for attacking me.

Ha
Well, Ha, I've seen Triumph of Will, the amazing propaganda film of Hitler by filmaker Lani Riefenstahl, and there is simply no comparison at all between Hitler and Obama regarding the charismatic and propaganda quality of both speakers. In fact, Obama does not even come close as a speaker to Reverend Sharpton. I don't know what the basis of your opinion is regarding Obama's similarity is to Hitler (coming from "no-where" is kinda of a shallow assertion) -- seems like a pretty loaded charge to make without any real substantiation.

Then you connect Obama to Louis Fararakhan (and anti-semitism) and you admit you don't know anything about that, but you just throw it out there.

The statements you made are truly comical, except that I detect you're serious about them.
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Old 02-17-2008, 05:09 PM   #40
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McCain seems truly to have believed and still believes that the Iraq war was and is necessary. I think he is wrong, so I won't vote for him, but I respect his belief. Clinton's vote to authorize the war was, in my opinion, nothing but political posturing. She saw which way the wind was blowing, knew that she would eventually run for president and did not want to be seen as weak on defense, so she voted in favor. It is telling that she never read the NIE. It is one thing to be honest but mistaken in taking the nation to war. It is quite another to send the children of others to die in order to serve your own political ambition. I find that unforgivable. I believe that Clinton's action in this regard should trouble even those who support the war.
Nicely summarized.
Ditto.
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