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Old 02-18-2008, 02:22 PM   #61
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As for your reference to Farakkan, you are employing the classic smear tactics and swiftboating. Your Hitler comparison is tasteless and dispicable and was done for only one reason which I don't have to point out to you.
You at it over here too.

You are connecting dots that do not exist. Your PC outrage is a bit misplaced.

Do not confuse rhetoric with racism. People use rhetoric, comparison and contrast to accentuate points.

Playing the race card is a tactic that is somewhat effective at shutting people up. I find the tactic a little despicable. You certainly will not convince anyone to your way of thinking by calling them a racist.

Geez you would think HA advised someone to buy an annuity the way you are reacting.
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:30 PM   #62
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For the Dems. It is probably a matter of electability. Hillary is much more likely to get the independent vote. Obama's strong showing is in part due to the {majority} of the minority vote going to Obama.
The only reason why Obama could have garnered more popular vote than Hillary is because of the independent votes and the few republicans voting for him. Obama has won almost half of the white votes. In every poll conducted Obama beats McCain and it's primarily independents gravitating towards him. Have you been connected to the issues. It does not seem that you've been following this election very much.
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:36 PM   #63
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The only reason why Obama could have garnered more popular vote than Hillary is because of the independent votes and the few republicans voting for him. Obama has won almost half of the white votes. In every poll conducted Obama beats McCain and it's primarily independents gravitating towards him. Have you been connected to the issues. It does not seem that you've been following this election very much.
Let the voters speak in the general election. If he wins the election, so be it. We will get a good look at his politics and policies.

My point is that I am not likely to vote for a newbie with a short track record. Especially one that may jack up taxes. It seems like a risk and I am not inclined to take that risk.

Isn't that the beauty of a free nation. You can vote as you see fit and so can I.
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:43 PM   #64
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Chinaco:

You and I have been undertaxed for far too long. It's time to pay the piper. Increased taxes will occur regardless of who becomes the president.
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:43 PM   #65
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You should learn that everyone might not agree with you. It might help you with a few of those anger issues you have.
You don't know me so you're not qualified to judge. I don't have any anger problems but I do feel the need to respond in a direct way to those nasty comments I saw on here today that have nothing to do with the real issues. It's exactly the nasty politics that I don't like. Let's stick to the facts and stop comparing good people with Hitler and creating associations just to discredit someone. I am passionate about pointing out such dispicable behavior and for that I make no apologies. You can go ahead and pretend to ignore such behavior and refer to it as a different point of view but respect the fact that I feel the need to speak out against it. Just like I would not stand by and allow a child to get hurt or allow prejudice to go unchallenged. Think of the war that has resulted in an estimated 100,000 Iraqis killed and thousand of Americans killed. Do you think the outcome would be different if we all raised our voices in protest?
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:47 PM   #66
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You at it over here too.

You are connecting dots that do not exist. Your PC outrage is a bit misplaced.

Do not confuse rhetoric with racism. People use rhetoric, comparison and contrast to accentuate points.

Playing the race card is a tactic that is somewhat effective at shutting people up. I find the tactic a little despicable. You certainly will not convince anyone to your way of thinking by calling them a racist.

Geez you would think HA advised someone to buy an annuity the way you are reacting.
What race card? I don't have any to play. I drew a legitimate conclusion from your post on the other thread? What I did not do was to read the entire thread so my conclusion was somewhat out of context.
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:57 PM   #67
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You don't know me so you're not qualified to judge. I don't have any anger problems but I do feel the need to respond in a direct way to those nasty comments I saw on here today that have nothing to do with the real issues. It's exactly the nasty politics that I don't like. Let's stick to the facts and stop comparing good people with Hitler and creating associations just to discredit someone. I am passionate about pointing out such dispicable behavior and for that I make no apologies. You can go ahead and pretend to ignore such behavior and refer to it as a different point of view but respect the fact that I feel the need to speak out against it. Just like I would not stand by and allow a child to get hurt or allow prejudice to go unchallenged. Think of the war that has resulted in an estimated 100,000 Iraqis killed and thousand of Americans killed. Do you think the outcome would be different if we all raised our voices in protest?
Oh I know you. Well enough to know your type. You already accused one poster of making racist comments which was far from the truth.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:08 PM   #68
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Oh I know you. Well enough to know your type. You already accused one poster of making racist comments which was far from the truth.
Were you the one admonishing me that others may hold a different opinion? Well you have just proven yourself to be quite judgmental. I know your types too; the type that you cannot have a rational disagreement without being labeled. Why don't you just come out and say you support the Hitler comparison rather than ducking behind the fence throwing rocks in defense of other posters. I don't need to have any further discussion with you because God knows what the next label would be.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:15 PM   #69
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The question of the day is: If Hill wins it all at the Dem convention this summer, who will have the balls to say "yes" to her request to be the VP? If Hill actually wins in November, will that person be subservient to Bill? Will that person be two heartbeats from the presidency or one heartbeat as current custom requires?
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:23 PM   #70
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Were you the one admonishing me that others may hold a different opinion? Well you have just proven yourself to be quite judgmental. I know your types too; the type that you cannot have a rational disagreement without being labeled. Why don't you just come out and say you support the Hitler comparison rather than ducking behind the fence throwing rocks in defense of other posters. I don't need to have any further discussion with you because God knows what the next label would be.
You poisoned any non-emotional political discussion that might go on in this thread.

People have opinion and point of view. You start with the personal attacks and that ends the civil conversation.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:24 PM   #71
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I wouldn't want that VP job for all the tea in China.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:33 PM   #72
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Why did you not liken him to other great American leaders like JFK?
I think because I knew that you were bored today and I wanted to give you something to seethe about.

Now my dear, I notice that you are long on invective, but perhaps short on liberal education. It was interesting that you mentioned Jack Kennedy, whose candidacy as you pointed out clearly had a lot on common with Obama's today. Herb Goldberg, in his book Liberal Fascism clarifies the clearly fascists aspects of the Kennedy cult of personality, his appointing Bobby to be Attorney General so he could punish severely anyone who didn't come along sweetly, and his mob ties.

And of course the family patriarch Joseph had a long association with fascism.

Here's a short excerpt from a recent Slate article, by James Currin, reviewing the book, Liberal Fascism. As you perhaps know, Slate is hardly a publication of right wing nut-jobs.

“Before we can discuss Mr. Goldberg's thesis, we must get beyond Orwell's famous dismissal of Fascism as "anything not desirable" and try to define its essence. It will not do to simply identify it with Hitler or Franco or Mussolini. Had Herr Hitler suppressed his voracious appetite for war and his murderous hatred of the Jews, he would have become one of the most admired statesmen of the mid-twentieth century. The New York Times would have written rapturous editorials approving of his vision and moderation.

So, what is the essence of fascism? Do you yearn for a charismatic leader who can move beyond the petty squabbles of political faction, and discern a common will to be expressed in a flurry of legislation. If that is so, then you are a Fascist. The current embodiment of this ideal is the boy orator from Illinois. This is of course not to say that Barack Obama is a Fascist. But his expressed ideals are.

Slate -> The Fray -> Books

It is so difficult to discuss history with someone who knows nothing of it. But for a take on how Hitler was perceived in both America and England prior to his invasion of Poland, read some speeches by Neville Chamberlain, read what Henry Ford said, what Lucky Lindy said.

If you could control your anger and name calling you might see that I agree that your candidate does indeed have excellent oratorical skills, and is in the popularity contest of a modern American election, a very good candidate. I really don't think I should be punished for pointing out that oratory is not necessarily correlated with good government.

For an African American candidate who is clearly qualified to lead as well as run, see my post above on Condoleezza Rice.

And quit calling me names; you are calling yourself stupid.

Ha
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:44 PM   #73
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From what I have read of Condoleeza Rice, she seems eminently qualified and I think McCain would be wise to make her his VP candidate. To me, the principal downside is that she has too often been the "good soldier" going along with GWB.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:53 PM   #74
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To me, the principal downside is that she has too often been the "good soldier" going along with GWB.
I thought that was the MO of the National Security Advisor, to agree with the President........seems to me that has been the case for many years......
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:59 PM   #75
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She has been the Secretary of State since 2005, but the same concept holds true. Yes, when you become the NSA or Sec. State, you know that you are serving at the pleasure of the president and should generally be onboard. At some point, however, you have to say "enough is enough, you are ruining the country and I can't be part of it" and quit.
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:06 PM   #76
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Oh come on - just think if we all get together we can become an Obamanation
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:06 PM   #77
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You poisoned any non-emotional political discussion that might go on in this thread.

People have opinion and point of view. You start with the personal attacks and that ends the civil conversation.
Of course, no one wants to be called a racist even though they really are. I was not the only one to detect that tendency. You can call it a personal attack if you want. Be my guest. I've seen worst on here and I've also seen people get away with really nasty comments but one that sullies a good man name that many people support will not go unanswered by me so just accept that and move on. How would you like to your beloved president to be compared to Hitler? I hope you'll take it lying down.
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:10 PM   #78
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It is so difficult to discuss history with someone who knows nothing of it.

Ha
Go on, make assumptions. You are proving you that you are nothing but a pompous ........
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:11 PM   #79
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Hah, how do you know he is my candidate. I am trying to fair to the guy. Give him a break.
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:13 PM   #80
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She has been the Secretary of State since 2005, but the same concept holds true. Yes, when you become the NSA or Sec. State, you know that you are serving at the pleasure of the president and should generally be onboard. At some point, however, you have to say "enough is enough, you are ruining the country and I can't be part of it" and quit.
This is an interesting assertion, but I believe that her behavior while perhaps not a political plus is a character plus, and may indicate more than anything that she is unwilling to arrogate to herself judgment capabilities that go beyond the available facts.

Even all the hatred that is recently directed at Bush over WMDs to me stinks of dogs tearing up the carcass of a badly wounded bear. Like another poster pointed out, Saddam did have WMD. Are chemical weapons WMD in the sense that we are talking about? Yes. Did Saddam deploy chemical weapons against citizens of Iraq? Yes. So Saddam had WMD, case closed.

Bush and all his policies are at present very unpopular. Given time, we may find that a reasoned appraisal would give him much higher rating.

For these reasons I feel that Dr. Rice's refusal to save her political skin over her duty to her country says a lot about the high quality of her character.

Ha
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