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Old 02-10-2008, 01:32 PM   #21
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The far right seems OUTraged by McCain.. and it's the wingnut R fringe that has been dredging this stuff up so far, not the Dems.
Isn't it delicious to watch your politicalopponents devour each other and publicly fling poop at the front runner even after he has decidedly won the contest? No need to get your hands dirty when your opponent is so bent on beating himself to a bloody pulp. Reminds me of the Rethuglican Congress in the months leading up to the last election when both houses changed hands. Democrats generally just kept their mouths shut and smiled while their opponents disintegrated in public.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:02 PM   #22
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Isn't it delicious to watch your politicalopponents devour each other and publicly fling poop at the front runner even after he has decidedly won the contest? No need to get your hands dirty when your opponent is so bent on beating himself to a bloody pulp. Reminds me of the Rethuglican Congress in the months leading up to the last election when both houses changed hands. Democrats generally just kept their mouths shut and smiled while their opponents disintegrated in public.
OF COURSE the Dems like McCain, he's a RINO............
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:41 PM   #23
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"Bomb, bomb, bomb.. bomb, bomb, Iran"?

I don't like him.
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:52 PM   #24
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So, come election time when the real mud slinging starts, do you think McCain can successfully manage the 'issues' that are sure to resurface? I'm thinking of things like his wife admitting to stealing painkillers, his fame as a member of the Keating Five, maybe someone that he was in the POW camp with will surface for their 15 minutes of fame and attempted character assassination.

Note, I didn't say I cared about the things above, I'm just wondering how deep the mud is going to be this year. I'm guessing it won't be our most civil election...
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:07 PM   #25
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The far right will vote for McCain. The alternative for them is terrible
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:56 AM   #26
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Nords:

Oh lord...how I hate to admit this one, but I read Gene Simmons' autobiography:
Gene Simmons and his mother were displaced persons after WWII.
His father, a very good looking and nice man, was not much of a wage earner for the family. He was a laborer of some kind I think. But a very, very poor earner lacking initiation and drive.
Anyway, his mother divorced his father when Gene was young. All young Gene heard from the mother was what a nice guy and good looking his father was (too bad it skipped Gene), but he didn't know how to make money. This was her mantra to Gene. Over and over she repeated that when conversations turned to Gene's father. No wonder Gene thinks that to earn is place in his mother's heart that he HAS to make money in order to win her approval!!! And, by the way, he does worship is mother like many nice Jewish boys.
Yes, I agree, now it is his ego that drives him. But it started with Mama beating the message in his head.
(Now I am going to slink in a corner and curl in a fetal position for admitting I even read that book....)
P.S. I read all Donald Trump's books when I can, too. Amazingly, he makes alot of sense to me. Wonder what that says about my logic...ha!
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:08 PM   #27
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(Now I am going to slink in a corner and curl in a fetal position for admitting I even read that book....)
Hey, I read it too, and it's one of the best rock biographies I've ever read.

It's touching learning about his mother helping him adjust the codpiece on his stage costume. Or the part where she almost beat a neighbor to death.

But reluctantly returning to topic, John McCain doesn't have a lot to say about his mother's influence on his life!
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:40 PM   #28
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Gene's mother did have some big backbone on her. Lord...what will MY son say about me? (Please don't let him become famous and start telling his "stories" about me...because he has more than one.)
Interesting that McCain has doesn't say much about his mother.
I can tell you from working with the late Senator Everett Dirksen (and being the one he dictated his autobiography to, which Mrs. D make into "Me and Mr. Marigold") that he WORSHIPED his mother. When he spoke of her it was like he was transfixed into another planet much like Gene Simmon's is told of doing. Dirksen's father was the town drunk, I think; mother raised 2 boys and one set of twins (Everett was a twin) by herself. Pretty poor, I gathered, from what he said.
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:50 PM   #29
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So, come election time when the real mud slinging starts, do you think McCain can successfully manage the 'issues' that are sure to resurface? I'm thinking of things like his wife admitting to stealing painkillers, his fame as a member of the Keating Five, maybe someone that he was in the POW camp with will surface for their 15 minutes of fame and attempted character assassination.

Note, I didn't say I cared about the things above, I'm just wondering how deep the mud is going to be this year. I'm guessing it won't be our most civil election...
Like the Swift Boat Vets for Truth did for Kerry
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:02 PM   #30
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Like the Swift Boat Vets for Truth did for Kerry
Well, it worked pretty well against him. Then again, you'd think the dems would have been able to launch an effective counterattack but.
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:24 PM   #31
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Well, it worked pretty well against him. Then again, you'd think the dems would have been able to launch an effective counterattack but.
Some lies and factual distortions take on a life of their own and there's no way of counter-balancing the damage done. It's incredible how bad the distortions can become. When Rep. John Murtha started questioning the Administration's Iraqi military strategy, all of a sudden Murtha's military service record and medals became questioned too. And when McCain ran against Bush in the critical 2000 primary in South Carolina, the rumors started circulating in South Carolina that McCain had fathered a black child out of wedlock -- ironic, no doubt, as South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond did actually father a black child out of wedlock, a fact that became well-known in 2003 after his death.

There's a lot of swift-boating that will likely occur in this race.
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:32 PM   #32
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I found this interesting mainly because I didn't know McCain graduated from the Naval Academy 394 out of 399.
Actually, it says that he graduated 894 out of a class of 899.

I was amused to hear the following Freudian slip as a McCain supporter was recently interviewed on the radio:

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I think John McCain should be president because he's a veteran. And I'm a veteran!

I support his views on Vietnam. I mean, Iraq. I think that we should stay there until we've finished the job.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:40 PM   #33
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What's with America? George W. Bush was a C student, and now McCain graduating at the bottom of his class. Can't we do a tad better than that, folks?

I hate to admit how out of it politically I have been for the past 30 years. I was too busy doing silly things like running a business and raising a son; so, I wasn't sure what the Keating 5 was until I just looked it up. My, my....how politics hasn't changed at all! Same ole crap, different year.
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:54 PM   #34
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What's with America? George W. Bush was a C student, and now McCain graduating at the bottom of his class. Can't we do a tad better than that, folks?
Well, it didn't work out for us when we elected a nuclear engineer, right?
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:00 PM   #35
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What's with America? George W. Bush was a C student, and now McCain graduating at the bottom of his class. Can't we do a tad better than that, folks?
And there are others. E.g., Nixon and Reagan graduated from respectively Whittier College and Eureka College.

The Democrats have a better record, but how to explain Johnson's alma mater (Southwest Texas State Teachers' College)?!
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:02 PM   #36
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Jimmy Carter is probably damn near a genius. That went well.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:10 PM   #37
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Harry Truman graduate from the prestigious college of.....




Hard Knocks.. didn't attend any college, didn't keep him from being a respectable presidnt.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:34 PM   #38
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What's with America? George W. Bush was a C student, and now McCain graduating at the bottom of his class. Can't we do a tad better than that, folks?
USNA's minimum grade point average is a 2.0, so John McCain was at least a "C" student. At that class rank his GPA was probably all the way up around 2.0005 or maybe even 2.001. He took a lot of engineering & naval science courses, too. I wonder what Bush studied?

But McCain made more musters than Bush, and he probably participated in way more extracurricular activities (authorized and otherwise) than Bush. Could probably drink him under the table, too. Typical buncha aviators.

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Jimmy Carter is probably damn near a genius. That went well.
I think Gumby would agree with me that this is what you get for electing a nuclear submariner to commander-in-chief.

Depsite Carter's kinder gentler elder-statesman image, my FIL spent a lot of time on the CBS crew around the White House. He says that during the Carter presidency he was a worse SOB than Nixon and almost as bad as Johnson. But then Johnson was several standard deviations into a league of his own...
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:31 PM   #39
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While not an impossibility, it would be a rare nuclear submariner that I would recommend for the presidency. The atmosphere in which we lived was not conducive to developing the traits necessary for success at that level. For example, we would obsess over useless detail. We had masses of data and believed each point was equally important. We were also obsessed with control. In the nuclear navy, there are no "acts of God". We controlled, or at least thought we controlled each and every aspect of the reactor and the boat. If something bad happened, it must be traced back to a human failure somewhere. We also lived in a world where the epitome of success was "no discrepancies noted". That fixation led to a world where people "played for a tie". No one wanted to take a bold new step, because you might fail. By the same token, the intense focus on the negative -- finding faults and correcting them -- while good for running a nuclear reactor and a sub with nuclear missiles on board, does not typically make for good leaders, who must coach, cajole and inspire their followers, recognizing they are imperfect but telling them they are doing a good job and giving them hope that they can do a better job. In our technocratic little world, we mostly told people when they made mistakes and almost never praised them. Finally, we had the Platonic belief that people would do the right thing if only they knew what it was; that the only reason people did anything wrong was because they didn't know better. Naturally, this totally ignores the fact that people are irrational, lazy and self centered.

Those who lived through the Carter years will probably recognize these very traits in him.


But, to give some additional perspective, I can also say that the most effective lawyers I have known are not necessarily the smartest lawyers I have known. In fact, I have known some very intelligent lawyers who could not get out of their own way. I think the most effective presidents are good leaders. While there is a certain minimum intelligence required (which I think GWB lacks), the ability to set the tone and inspire your followers to do great things is far more important than sheer brainpower.
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Old 02-11-2008, 11:38 PM   #40
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USNA's minimum grade point average is a 2.0, so John McCain was at least a "C" student. At that class rank his GPA was probably all the way up around 2.0005 or maybe even 2.001. He took a lot of engineering & naval science courses, too. I wonder what Bush studied?
...
Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that Annapolis class ranks is function of GPA and demerits. I believe McCain did respectably in academics but darn near lead the class in demerits.
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