Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-15-2013, 11:37 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortInSeattle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome len View Post
If you leave a cheap tip, don't plan on going back. We just go to a few restaurants on a regular basis, know most of the servers and treat them well. If you leave 10% or less, be prepared to have a server spit in your food once in a while.......I've seen it happen. And, If I were the server I'd be tempted (but wouldn't) spit in their food as well.
If I ever saw someone spit in someone's food I'd be talking to the owner or the health department. That's nasty, and inexcusable.

(Shudder)
+1 to ShortInSeattle

Wait a minute - if I get bad service I am free to leave a small, or even no tip. But I wouldn't even consider spitting on the server. The very idea that a server who receives a <10% tip gives them the right to violate my food is obscene.

Maybe we should all just stop going to restaurants all together. Then see how much money these servers make, no salary and no tip.

A tip is supposed to be for good service, not to be used as a payment to a mob gangster for 'protection' against people spitting on my food. That's outrageous.


-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-15-2013, 11:40 PM   #42
Full time employment: Posting here.
Ronnieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortInSeattle View Post
If I ever saw someone spit in someone's food I'd be talking to the owner or the health department. That's nasty, and inexcusable.

(Shudder)
That is why they do it when you are not looking

Ever see "Mystery Diners" on the Food Network? Watch that a few times and you'll never want to eat out again.
__________________

__________________
I don't want to spend my entire life at work. I deserve more. - Want2retire aka W2R
Ronnieboy is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 04:27 AM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,914
Tipping is part of the social contract, in the cultures it is prevalent. Those within the culture who refuse to abide by the social contract are acting, literally, in an antisocial manner, since their reticence undermines the value of the gratuity system itself: The more that servers experience getting stiffed, the more they're going to suspect patrons of potentially stiffing them. That'll drive far less effort towards providing superior service. However, not enough to scuttle the system - just enough to drive overall quality down.

It's just another reflection of the kind of consumerist death spiral that is very common in our society: Some people see a means of getting what they want at a much lower price; more and more people patronize Wal-Mart or Peoples Express Airlines or whatever; that makes it less profitable for the high quality providers, and eventually gets to the point where there is no profit motive left to provide superior service; so the legacy providers either vanish or reconstitute as low-cost providers; lather, rinse, repeat.

We end up with a situation where consumer products and services are continually lowering in quality, with a few boutique manufacturers and retailers charging outrageously high prices (compared to the rapaciously low prices consumers are used to) to serve those few who are willing to pay extra for better, though even then they're getting screwed because they're paying so much more for high quality that they would have if it was the norm, due to lack of economies of scale.

We see myriad threads on discussion forums all over whining about how quality and service have gone to crap and people wonder why. Many people cannot accept that the responsibility for low quality rests partially in themselves.
__________________
bUU is online now  
Old 06-16-2013, 08:39 AM   #44
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: dubuque
Posts: 618
I am not a big fan of eating out. when I do I usually pay 15-20% tip. If the food or the service is bad I just don't got back to that place. my wife doesn't like it when I complain, so this is the way I handle it.
__________________
frank is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 09:23 AM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 5,686
This is probably my last word on this thread. I realized after posting my 12% number that mostly nowadays I'm hitting 15% (or more on low bill situations). Maybe I will stay out of tip hell afterall?
__________________
Lsbcal is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 10:47 AM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Tipping is part of the social contract, in the cultures it is prevalent. Those within the culture who refuse to abide by the social contract are acting, literally, in an antisocial manner, since their reticence undermines the value of the gratuity system itself: The more that servers experience getting stiffed, the more they're going to suspect patrons of potentially stiffing them. That'll drive far less effort towards providing superior service. However, not enough to scuttle the system - just enough to drive overall quality down.

....

We see myriad threads on discussion forums all over whining about how quality and service have gone to crap and people wonder why. Many people cannot accept that the responsibility for low quality rests partially in themselves.
But a 10% tip for less than average service is 'part of the social contract', isn't it?

Spitting on a customer's food isn't.

Part of the responsibility rest on the server also.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 06-16-2013, 11:12 AM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post

But a 10% tip for less than average service is 'part of the social contract', isn't it?

Spitting on a customer's food isn't.

Part of the responsibility rest on the server also.

-ERD50
I am still in agreement with ERD. I agree with Buu's "social contract" only because I know their $2 an hour wage is supposed to be supplemented with the tip. But many people do not know what the tip is supposed to mean, including me, especially on who actually receives it. Couple of examples: If the food is atrocious, but the service from waitress is good, many people are ticked off and don't tip. But in reality, the wrong person suffers. Also some companies from what I have read now consider the person who sits you as part of the tipping team, even though they do not directly wait on you, so their wages are reduced, too.
When I worked in the business as a teenager, I remember the waitresses being happy on slow days they were the cashier and hostess because they were guaranteed the higher base pay. The system isn't going to change, so I will always tip according to the going rate of 15-20.
__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 12:55 PM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
photoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
The system isn't going to change, so I will always tip according to the going rate of 15-20.
I think the system is changing in that what is considered an "acceptable" tip seems to have been steadily increasing (as a percentage). Maybe my memory is just bad, but I thought there was a time when 10-15% was considered good? Also per the other thread there are a lot more tip jars than I remember.
__________________
photoguy is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 01:02 PM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoguy View Post

I think the system is changing in that what is considered an "acceptable" tip seems to have been steadily increasing (as a percentage). Maybe my memory is just bad, but I thought there was a time when 10-15% was considered good? Also per the other thread there are a lot more tip jars than I remember.
Yes, I believe you are correct. I thought 20 years ago or so, it was 10%. I don't know how it changed but it sure did. Maybe because the minimum wage has escalated though the years, but waitress base has not. Concerning those tip jars, as someone mentioned before, I just love the "seed money" planted in the jars. I personally have been at a Starbucks right when it opened and surprise, greenbacks were already in the jar. Gotta love the psychology being used!
__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 01:11 PM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
But a 10% tip for less than average service is 'part of the social contract', isn't it?
If service is inadequate, surely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Spitting on a customer's food isn't.
Of course, but I don't know anyone who presents that as what should happen, as much as anyone presents poor people killing rich people in reaction to gross economic inequality as what should happen. They're transgressive actions that are regrettably and tragically more likely to occur in such scenarios.
__________________
bUU is online now  
Old 06-16-2013, 01:19 PM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,881
I've noticed a few restaurants locally tack on a 20% service fee now, but there is still (also) a place on the CC receipt to add a tip.

I figure they are trying to grab an extra few bucks from folks that don't realize that they are already paying a fee.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 01:20 PM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
... Concerning those tip jars, as someone mentioned before, I just love the "seed money" planted in the jars. I personally have been at a Starbucks right when it opened and surprise, greenbacks were already in the jar. Gotta love the psychology being used!
I realize you just touched on another issue I have with the whole tipping thing. When I'm tipping, I really have no idea how much the server is making total per hour. They might be doing very well, and if I knew they were making really good money for the work they do, maybe I'd leave a relatively smaller tip. OTOH, if they are really barely making min wage, I'd be made to feel bad by not giving a 'good' tip.

But I can't know that - should I ask the server (obviously not acceptable)?

But, the manager knows this. This just strengthens my view that it is the manager that should be paying the servers directly, and encourage the customers to provide feedback (good or bad) if needed, just like you might about the temperature, the lighting, the music volume, or if your food was exceptionally good or bad.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 06-16-2013, 01:27 PM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,914
I think that mortgage companies should pay for appraisals and credit checks and so on themselves - after all those things protect their investors - rather than passing those costs along to borrowers or rolling those costs into the borrower's cost of the loan. However, despite logical reasons, individuals just don't typically get to make those kinds of societal changes unilaterally.
__________________
bUU is online now  
Old 06-16-2013, 01:33 PM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50;1329977[quote
A tip is supposed to be for good service, not to be used as a payment to a mob gangster for 'protection' against people spitting on my food. That's outrageous.
-ERD50
You are certainly correct in what "should" be happening. Unfortunately reality deviates from the should scenario as often as not. I tend to try to observe what is happening, be aware of legal constraints that also affect the space, and try to harmonize with what is the case, and forget what should be the case. Otherwise, don't participate-like you said, skip the meals out. Even on trips we can buy cheese at a market and eat in a park.

I should be able to walk around anywhere at 2 am, after all there is no law against walking around at any hour. Nevertheless if I did so and someone hurt me, the police among other things would say that I was an idiot. I should have realized that while there is no law against walking on public streets, and there is a law against assaulting people, in the real world the law against assault may not adequately protect me while I am legally walking.

For some odd reason, many of us as Americans spend a fair amount of energy resisting reality as it exists on the ground.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 02:12 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Tipping is part of the social contract, in the cultures it is prevalent. Those within the culture who refuse to abide by the social contract are acting, literally, in an antisocial manner, since their reticence undermines the value of the gratuity system itself.
Ahh, social relativism claptrap. Tipping aside, some "social contracts" are less worthy of our support than others, and to fight them (by refusing to support them) is a good thing. When social norms are wrong, then "antisocial" is right--it's how progress is made.
-- Alabama, 1922: Should we all attend the lynching because that's part of the social contract?
-- Afghanistan, 2013: Should we help stone the 14YO girl who was raped? It's expected, you know--we've got to enforce the rules.
--Chicago, 2013: Offer the special payoff to the local city alderman to get your zoning change approved? "It's how things are done here."

Back to tipping: If we oppose it, go to restaurants where it isn't practiced. If we go to a restaurant where it is practiced, don't tip and instead consider leaving the server an equally-valued gift certificate you purchased good at the non-tipping restaurant. The server isn't harmed and the non-tipping establishment prospers.
If we oppose tipping, then failing to leave any tip or non-monetary consideration is valuable in the grand scheme of things for the reasons you outlined--it helps undermine the system. If tips decrease, only the least competent workers will choose to work at these places, and service quality will decrease still more (driving down patronage). Meanwhile, the non-tip establishments will prosper.

I'm ambivalent. I do tip the hotel housekeeping staff well if the room is clean, and I don't mind leaving 15% in conventional restaurants. But I don't want to see the practice expand, so I generally resist the tip jars, etc.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 05:01 PM   #56
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 942
Getting back to the original article posted about Christians being poor tippers. I have owned hair salons for over 30 years. At one time I had 12 of them. They were located in malls and were therefore open 7 days a week.

My biggest problem was always staffing Sunday. Employees would always call in sick on Sundays. Naturally Saturday and Sunday were the busiest days of the week. I can not tell you how many managers have told me over the years (as well as the hair stylists themselves) that the reason the stylists don't want to work on Sundays, was because the tips were so terrible.

We did get a lot of after church clientele, but I never associated that with being the reason tips were so poor on Sunday. I still don't have an definitive answer to why, but it is a fact. I do also question the truthfulness of such a survey sent out. What poor tipper is going to fess up to it on paper in a survey. Not very likely in my opinion. Might as well send out a survey to gauge what religious groups are going to admit to their practice of being cruel to animals. A silly and unreliable survey in my opinion.
__________________
modhatter is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 05:58 PM   #57
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Just North of Boston
Posts: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Concerning those tip jars, as someone mentioned before, I just love the "seed money" planted in the jars. I personally have been at a Starbucks right when it opened and surprise, greenbacks were already in the jar. Gotta love the psychology being used!
Just thought I would let you know, at the Starbucks around here, the "tip" jar is only emptied once a week... the total for the week is then divided by the total hours worked in the store that week and everyone gets that amount times the number of hours they worked.
__________________
ChiliPepr is offline  
Old 06-16-2013, 06:26 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliPepr View Post

Just thought I would let you know, at the Starbucks around here, the "tip" jar is only emptied once a week... the total for the week is then divided by the total hours worked in the store that week and everyone gets that amount times the number of hours they worked.
If that's the way they do it up at Tahoe where I was at, then they sure don't get much to fight about.
__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:20 AM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Ahh, social relativism claptrap.
You are spewing vitriol at social consciousness, as you're wont and entitled to do. The hard truth is that those who eschew social obligations like this actually get rewarded for self-interest. It is unfair, of course, but the world isn't fair, I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Tipping aside, some "social contracts" are less worthy of our support than others, and to fight them (by refusing to support them) is a good thing. When social norms are wrong, then "antisocial" is right--it's how progress is made.
And if you consider tipping to be comparable to any of the offensive examples you posted, then there is simply no speaking to you civilly about this.
__________________
bUU is online now  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:40 AM   #60
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 684
I like tipping, always fun to "vote" on how much to tip. DW often gives a large tip if she likes the server. Recently she gave a single mom, 8 1/2 months pregnant, big smile, 100% ($20).
__________________

__________________
48Fire is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:02 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.