Interesting article on tipping

[mickeyd]

I've noticed a few restaurants locally tack on a 20% service fee now, but there is still (also) a place on the CC receipt to add a tip.

I figure they are trying to grab an extra few bucks from folks that don't realize that they are already paying a fee.

 

[ERD50]

... Concerning those tip jars, as someone mentioned before, I just love the "seed money" planted in the jars. I personally have been at a Starbucks right when it opened and surprise, greenbacks were already in the jar. Gotta love the psychology being used!

I realize you just touched on another issue I have with the whole tipping thing. When I'm tipping, I really have no idea how much the server is making total per hour. They might be doing very well, and if I knew they were making really good money for the work they do, maybe I'd leave a relatively smaller tip. OTOH, if they are really barely making min wage, I'd be made to feel bad by not giving a 'good' tip.

But I can't know that - should I ask the server (obviously not acceptable)?

But, the manager knows this. This just strengthens my view that it is the manager that should be paying the servers directly, and encourage the customers to provide feedback (good or bad) if needed, just like you might about the temperature, the lighting, the music volume, or if your food was exceptionally good or bad.

-ERD50

 

[bUU]

I think that mortgage companies should pay for appraisals and credit checks and so on themselves - after all those things protect their investors - rather than passing those costs along to borrowers or rolling those costs into the borrower's cost of the loan. However, despite logical reasons, individuals just don't typically get to make those kinds of societal changes unilaterally.

 

[haha]

A tip is supposed to be for good service, not to be used as a payment to a mob gangster for 'protection' against people spitting on my food. That's outrageous.
-ERD50

You are certainly correct in what "should" be happening. Unfortunately reality deviates from the should scenario as often as not. I tend to try to observe what is happening, be aware of legal constraints that also affect the space, and try to harmonize with what is the case, and forget what should be the case. Otherwise, don't participate-like you said, skip the meals out. Even on trips we can buy cheese at a market and eat in a park.

I should be able to walk around anywhere at 2 am, after all there is no law against walking around at any hour. Nevertheless if I did so and someone hurt me, the police among other things would say that I was an idiot. I should have realized that while there is no law against walking on public streets, and there is a law against assaulting people, in the real world the law against assault may not adequately protect me while I am legally walking.

For some odd reason, many of us as Americans spend a fair amount of energy resisting reality as it exists on the ground.

Ha

 

[samclem]

Tipping is part of the social contract, in the cultures it is prevalent. Those within the culture who refuse to abide by the social contract are acting, literally, in an antisocial manner, since their reticence undermines the value of the gratuity system itself.

Ahh, social relativism claptrap. Tipping aside, some "social contracts" are less worthy of our support than others, and to fight them (by refusing to support them) is a good thing. When social norms are wrong, then "antisocial" is right--it's how progress is made.
-- Alabama, 1922: Should we all attend the lynching because that's part of the social contract?
-- Afghanistan, 2013: Should we help stone the 14YO girl who was raped? It's expected, you know--we've got to enforce the rules.
--Chicago, 2013: Offer the special payoff to the local city alderman to get your zoning change approved? "It's how things are done here."

Back to tipping: If we oppose it, go to restaurants where it isn't practiced. If we go to a restaurant where it is practiced, don't tip and instead consider leaving the server an equally-valued gift certificate you purchased good at the non-tipping restaurant. The server isn't harmed and the non-tipping establishment prospers.
If we oppose tipping, then failing to leave any tip or non-monetary consideration is valuable in the grand scheme of things for the reasons you outlined--it helps undermine the system. If tips decrease, only the least competent workers will choose to work at these places, and service quality will decrease still more (driving down patronage). Meanwhile, the non-tip establishments will prosper.

I'm ambivalent. I do tip the hotel housekeeping staff well if the room is clean, and I don't mind leaving 15% in conventional restaurants. But I don't want to see the practice expand, so I generally resist the tip jars, etc.

 

[modhatter]

Getting back to the original article posted about Christians being poor tippers. I have owned hair salons for over 30 years. At one time I had 12 of them. They were located in malls and were therefore open 7 days a week.

My biggest problem was always staffing Sunday. Employees would always call in sick on Sundays. Naturally Saturday and Sunday were the busiest days of the week. I can not tell you how many managers have told me over the years (as well as the hair stylists themselves) that the reason the stylists don't want to work on Sundays, was because the tips were so terrible.

We did get a lot of after church clientele, but I never associated that with being the reason tips were so poor on Sunday. I still don't have an definitive answer to why, but it is a fact. I do also question the truthfulness of such a survey sent out. What poor tipper is going to fess up to it on paper in a survey. Not very likely in my opinion. Might as well send out a survey to gauge what religious groups are going to admit to their practice of being cruel to animals. A silly and unreliable survey in my opinion.

 

[ChiliPepr]

Concerning those tip jars, as someone mentioned before, I just love the "seed money" planted in the jars. I personally have been at a Starbucks right when it opened and surprise, greenbacks were already in the jar. Gotta love the psychology being used!

Just thought I would let you know, at the Starbucks around here, the "tip" jar is only emptied once a week... the total for the week is then divided by the total hours worked in the store that week and everyone gets that amount times the number of hours they worked.

 

[Mulligan]

Just thought I would let you know, at the Starbucks around here, the "tip" jar is only emptied once a week... the total for the week is then divided by the total hours worked in the store that week and everyone gets that amount times the number of hours they worked.

If that's the way they do it up at Tahoe where I was at, then they sure don't get much to fight about.

 

[bUU]

Ahh, social relativism claptrap.

You are spewing vitriol at social consciousness, as you're wont and entitled to do. The hard truth is that those who eschew social obligations like this actually get rewarded for self-interest. It is unfair, of course, but the world isn't fair, I know.

Tipping aside, some "social contracts" are less worthy of our support than others, and to fight them (by refusing to support them) is a good thing. When social norms are wrong, then "antisocial" is right--it's how progress is made.

And if you consider tipping to be comparable to any of the offensive examples you posted, then there is simply no speaking to you civilly about this.

 

[48Fire]

I like tipping, always fun to "vote" on how much to tip. DW often gives a large tip if she likes the server. Recently she gave a single mom, 8 1/2 months pregnant, big smile, 100% ($20).

 

[Idnar7]

Anyone else over tip elderly waiter/waitresses? Some smaller breakfast/burger places have wait staff well past FRA still humping tables. In general they are the friendliest. The checks are generally small and I will tip 30-50%. Maybe it is just nice to see someone older than me.

A pet peeve is people that leave change for a tip. I will always round to a dollar. A few weeks ago I took some change to the bank to run it through the counter. A young girl kept dumping in bags of change. Then she went the the teller with the receipt and a wad of bills. The total was something like $346 in change and 41 in bills. She said she was a waitress and that was her weekend take. She was basically exchanging it for bigger bills which she walked out with. Such is the life of a waitress I guess.

 

[pb4uski]

I usually take 20% of the before tax total and round it down to the nearest dollar to get the tip and then further round the total (up or down if slight) so the total that goes on my credit card doesn't have cents. So if the pre-tax bill was $45.82 and the total was $49.94, I would generally tip $9.06 and my total would be $59.00. If service is particularly poor, I'll dial down to 15%. I usually only increase if service has been above and beyond or if the bill is small (for example breakfasts) and if I have a discount coupon I calculate the tip based on the bill before the discount.

I've always wondered whether my server makes out better if I tip cash rather than put it on my credit card. Supposedly they do but it is much more convenient for me to just add the tip to my credit card bill.

 

[samclem]

I've always wondered whether my server makes out better if I tip cash rather than put it on my credit card. Supposedly they do but it is much more convenient for me to just add the tip to my credit card bill.

I figure the tips on a credit card are more likely to be reported as taxable income and also to be included in the calculations to assure the person made minimum wage. If I've got that right, then tipping in cash helps a dishonest server evade paying taxes, so I see it as an advantage to tip using the credit card. Plus, there's the CC rebate . . .

 

[bUU]

I figure the tips on a credit card are more likely to be reported as taxable income and also to be included in the calculations to assure the person made minimum wage. If I've got that right, then tipping in cash helps a dishonest server evade paying taxes, so I see it as an advantage to tip using the credit card. Plus, there's the CC rebate . . .

Credit where credit is due: I disagree with samclem on so much, but agree with him 100% on this.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I figure the tips on a credit card are more likely to be reported as taxable income and also to be included in the calculations to assure the person made minimum wage. If I've got that right, then tipping in cash helps a dishonest server evade paying taxes, so I see it as an advantage to tip using the credit card. Plus, there's the CC rebate . . .

I think some restaurants deduct the CC fee from the tip which is why we usually leave a cash tip. But I doubt the waiters really care either way.

 

[ERD50]

A tip is supposed to be for good service, not to be used as a payment to a mob gangster for 'protection' against people spitting on my food.

You are certainly correct in what "should" be happening. Unfortunately reality deviates from the should scenario as often as not. I tend to try to observe what is happening, be aware of legal constraints that also affect the space, and try to harmonize with what is the case, and forget what should be the case. Otherwise, don't participate-like you said, skip the meals out. Even on trips we can buy cheese at a market and eat in a park.

I should be able to walk around anywhere at 2 am, after all there is no law against walking around at any hour. Nevertheless if I did so and someone hurt me, the police among other things would say that I was an idiot. I should have realized that while there is no law against walking on public streets, and there is a law against assaulting people, in the real world the law against assault may not adequately protect me while I am legally walking.

For some odd reason, many of us as Americans spend a fair amount of energy resisting reality as it exists on the ground.

Ha

You are right of course, and we all do this, probably w/o thinking most of the time. And I think I made the same argument recently with regards to bike riding in traffic - it may be legal, but it's still risky.

But in this context, the idea that a 10% tip would result in my food getting spat upon is outrageous. Given that there are some servers who would resort to this (hopefully a very small minority), I would expect that it would take more than a 10% tip to trigger that action, esp if it was in response to poor service.

And you tip after the meal, so this opportunity would not present itself until you return. Is that same server going to remember a 10% tipper, and serve that same person again, and hold a grudge that long? Could happen, but seems a stretch.

I would think it would be more likely to happen if the customer was acting obnoxious to the server, during the service. We've probably all seen that happen, and while I certainly wouldn't condone the spitting response, it would be a bit more understandable. Being treated like dirt can stir some pretty primal instincts. A 10% tip for poor service should simply tell the waiter you didn't think their service was up to par.

-ERD50

 

[bUU]

If you blithely return to a restaurant where you tipped less than 10%, due to poor service, then I'm more concerned about what you're doing than what a server might do. Unless you have reason to believe things will be different*, isn't it the prototypical definition of insanity to go into a restaurant you've already received poor service from expecting good service?

_____
* For example, the receiving assurance that that one staff member has been retrained.

 

[ERD50]

If you blithely return to a restaurant where you tipped less than 10%, due to poor service, then I'm more concerned about what you're doing than what a server might do. Unless you have reason to believe things will be different*, isn't it the prototypical definition of insanity to go into a restaurant you've already received poor service from expecting good service?

_____
* For example, the receiving assurance that that one staff member has been retrained.

Very good point, and it fits into why I don't like the whole tipping thing. What assurance do I have that my tip is going to change anything? I think we'd be far better off with this cost built into the meal, and let the manager know if our experience was above/below average. If the manager doesn't address the issue, time to move on to another place.

But am I expected to 'train' every sub-par server I come across, running my own little operant conditioning experiment with every meal? And count on others to do the same? And I don't get to see their log book to compare notes? It just seems so ineffective. And I'm there for a meal, not to train their staff.

If I go back and that server is gone, did they leave because of low tips, or did they leave for other reasons? Is their replacement any better?

If the manager asked for this feedback, we'd only have to 'train' one manager, not an entire staff.

-ERD50

 

[bUU]

What assurance do I have that my tip is going to change anything?

There are no guarantees in life, but a gratuity-based system works because if you're a poor performer, so much of your compensation being based on direct and immediate reviews of your performance results in an inability to earn anywhere near enough money. The fastest way to get fired as a server is for the employer to have to bring you up to minimum wage, on a night that the other servers earned loads of tips.

I think we'd be far better off with this cost built into the meal, and let the manager know if our experience was above/below average.

I personally think that's a fairer system overall, but we consumer, specifically, wouldn't be better off with such a system.

 

[haha]

You are right of course, and we all do this, probably w/o thinking most of the time. And I think I made the same argument recently with regards to bike riding in traffic - it may be legal, but it's still risky.

But in this context, the idea that a 10% tip would result in my food getting spat upon is outrageous.

I agree with you, the example that I gave is in a whole different realm from a 10% tip, or even no tip at all. To explain my thinking, I have to take a short detour into my psyche. So many things have happened in my life that I would have figured were essentially categorically impossible, that I have attempted to train myself to take nothing for granted. Robert Cialdini in his book Persuasion talks about a similar self training. He never responds to a request for a contribution, no matter how apparently worthy the cause is. His reason is that research shows going along with requests begets more going along with requests, such that one may eventually find himself doing things, or contributing to "causes" the he really has no interest in. One becomes in his own mind, ä generous, socially responsible person". While this definitely has its uses, not always for the person who has experienced this categorization.

Ha

 

[Milton]

Wait a minute - if I get bad service I am free to leave a small, or even no tip. But I wouldn't even consider spitting on the server. The very idea that a server who receives a <10% tip gives them the right to violate my food is obscene.

Maybe we should all just stop going to restaurants all together. Then see how much money these servers make, no salary and no tip.

Agreed.

Anyway, tipping is unAmerican ... Jason's Bar-B-Q had a sign to that effect in The Petrified Forest, so it must be so!

 

[Powor]

I think tipping does add an extra frustration to eating out that a lot of people would prefer to avoid. Of course, it also seems to add a tension between customer and server too, especially if the customer is unhappy. I'd much rather just pay the fee and get on with life.

 

[Amethyst]

And what if some loose cannon decides they feel like contaminating your food regardless of how you tip? Come to think of it, every time you eat out, you are ceding complete control over your food to complete strangers with unknown motivations! And people wonder why I don't eat out more

Amethyst

If I ever saw someone spit in someone's food I'd be talking to the owner or the health department. That's nasty, and inexcusable.

(Shudder)

 

[Gatordoc50]

Since I've retired, I find myself carrying very little, if any cash. I've found that miscellaneous tipping like golf cart attendants and valet parkers and such is the only reason I need to. Sort of seems silly to withdraw money and then give it away voluntarily.

 

[jollystomper]

If you blithely return to a restaurant where you tipped less than 10%, due to poor service, then I'm more concerned about what you're doing than what a server might do. Unless you have reason to believe things will be different*, isn't it the prototypical definition of insanity to go into a restaurant you've already received poor service from expecting good service?

_____
* For example, the receiving assurance that that one staff member has been retrained.

I agree - which is a reason why, on those infrequent occasions where I have left a bad or no tip, I made it a point to talk to the server or manager or write a letter to the owner to explain our reasons. Personally I found doing this in a pleasant but direct way greatly diffuses the situation, and most of the times we have gotten invitations to return and when we did, got treated much better. Once the manager even offered to comp our return meal, but we turned that down, we do not want to come across as freeloaders (sadly I have known of folks who complain just to get a partially or fully comped meal).

Based on experience and conversions with folks who have worked as servers, you are MUCH more likely to, shall we say, get "something" untoward done to your food if you treat them shabbily than if you leave a small tip. As I indicated in my previous post in this thread I get more annoyed by folks treating restaurant workers as "peasants" for their abuse instead of with due respect, even if you don't think the service has been great.