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Old 05-27-2008, 08:42 PM   #181
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How often are men and women trying to outguess each other as to what the other might find desirable?

MAN: I don't like ABC, but I have heard that women like a man who likes ABC, so I will say I like ABC.

WOMAN: I don't like ABC, but I see men say they like ABC, so I will say I like a man who likes ABC.

And if they do connect, they both have to spend the rest of their lives pretending they like ABC.

See: Abilene paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well, in a word, no. I don't know any women who frame themselves according to what men in general or any man in particular likes or dislikes. Not saying it doesn't happen, just not in my limited experience.

As for men, I wouldn't claim to know.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:03 PM   #182
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Dex,

FYI, have you gotten involved with the Sierra Club?
Also,
Adventure Travel Tours For 50 Plus - ElderTreks

I only know of these organizations as social venues by heresay.
Thanks for the advise - I'll check them out.

(P.S. - I know I'm 53 but I have a difficult with the term "Elder")
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:54 PM   #183
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Yikes....all these studies that you guys have done!
I have had a hard time finding anyone on the dating sites.....and I say what I mean and mean what I say....maybe that is the problem.
I don't understand why there are all these games between men and women!
I have been told that I am too blunt, that I live in an idealistic world, and that I am too independent and act like I don't need anyone. That last comment was made by a guy who could not use the sander to sand one of the pieces I found on the side of the road. I was able to do it all by myself.
I just want a guy who has his act together, does not live with mom and dad, likes to laugh and have fun.....and yes size does matter....but what matters more is how he can work it!
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:09 PM   #184
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I don't have it all figured out.

I really don't understand why women put up with men.
I see so many more women with waco, strange, unappealing guys than the other way around. (and no I haven't done a study).
IMO, it's one of two things. The woman knows and loves the heart of the man, or she is lonely and believes one day he will open his heart to her.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:24 PM   #185
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Well, in a word, no. I don't know any women who frame themselves according to what men in general or any man in particular likes or dislikes. Not saying it doesn't happen, just not in my limited experience.

As for men, I wouldn't claim to know.
They must be referring to girls they knew in high school...
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:31 AM   #186
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Googled my name, found lots of them, none of them me. I've been careful about that from day one. Being too public was not a healthy thing to do where I worked.

A while back a good friend recommended a couple of books about the outlook women have. They are (generally) so much more emotionally driven. Generalizations about people always find exceptions of course. Some more than others of course but still - I wouldn't cry if somebody forgot my birthday. For so many women that is a very serious offense. I will never understand why but it is apparently sufficient that I know it's important.

Reading Deborah Tannen's You Just Don't Understand years ago was like a revelation to me. It's about the different ways male/females communicate and the goals they have, differences seen at toddler stage. Reading it, I was constantly saying to myself "So THAT'S why she does that!" Some concepts on female priorities were/are very foreign, almost alien.

So much so that sometimes I think it's a wonder the species survives.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:37 PM   #187
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I believe that to feel that doing polls of dating sites will help you to understand woman borders on being delusional.
I doubt there's anything that can help men understand women, but examination of mainstream dating sites can do a lot to help men understand those traits in men that women find attractive (e.g., height, money, humor, age).

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Women are not as fetishistic as men. She may have all sorts of categories and shoulds in her head, but if she feels that you undersand her and care about her she will throw that over in two seconds to fall in love with you.
I disagree. The "understanding and care" argument is countered by empirical evidence. For example, take a tour of any area where couples congregate (church, shopping mall, restaurant, etc). Count the number of women who are with shorter men. The percentage will be very small. Part of this is due to the 5'' average height advantage that men have on women, but this isn't the primary driver. If women were so immune to a man's height and body size, then 50% of women who are 5'10'' (the average height for men) would be with shorter men. But this isn't what happens in practice. Women desire and ultimately partner with taller men. They do not partner with shorter men just because they "understand and care" about them (yes, there are exceptions, but the exceptions are few). This doesn't mean that understanding and care aren't important. It means that other factors have equal and/or greater importance. Same can be said with money, age, and other criteria.

Women are as superficial as men. The only difference is that when women are superficial, we use other terminology to describe their behavior. We say things like, "she's being selective," "she's empowering herself," or "all she really wants is an understanding and caring man." When men are superficial, however, we frown and call them sexist jerks. IMO, there's nothing wrong with men or women being superficial, as long they are willing to accept that they will get what they pay for.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:51 PM   #188
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What I find interesting is that so many of the profiles (men & women) say they like the outdoors - hiking, biking, etc.
If this was true you would thing the hiking trail would be a great way to meet singles. I'm out there and I can tell you it isn't.
In my match.com days, I found that women often claimed to like outdoor activities, but when it came down to it many of them were not all that active. A woman would write in her profile that she likes bicycling, but then in email/phone say that she hasn't ridden a bike in 10 years. Or she will say that she likes hiking, but then shudder at the thought of getting her shoes dirty. I found it necessary to be specific about what I enjoy (e.g., how many miles I run, ride, or hike). I wanted to be clear that for me, a "bike ride" didn't mean a couple of times around the block.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:28 PM   #189
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In my match.com days, I found that women often claimed to like outdoor activities, but when it came down to it many of them were not all that active.
It would seem just a line to get men.

Filipino women of my generation and older are not known for being outdoorsy or active in sports.

One good Filipina friend said she went hiking / mountain-climbing with her then-BF (now her husband) and that she had to crawl on her hands and knees along really narrow passes. Looking back, she was astonished at "everything she had to do to get that guy". I don't think they've done much of outdoor stuff since they got married.

Another good Filipina friend used to play tennis with a schoolmate in grad school who was really into tennis. After they started going out, whenever he would ask her to play tennis, she would say it's too hot to play. They have been married now for years.

On the flipside, could it be semantics--women do like outdoor activities, they have nothing against them, they just don't want to engage in them?

So, Shawn, your advice about being specific about number of miles, distance, number of times you engage in certain outdoor stuff or sporting activities is very good communication to avoid misunderstanding.

(Match.com might not be the place to look for sporting buddies. I wonder if women rule out men who are very athletic or obsessed with sports unless they themselves are into the specific activity?)
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:08 PM   #190
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In my match.com days, I found that women often claimed to like outdoor activities, but when it came down to it many of them were not all that active. A woman would write in her profile that she likes bicycling, but then in email/phone say that she hasn't ridden a bike in 10 years. Or she will say that she likes hiking, but then shudder at the thought of getting her shoes dirty. I found it necessary to be specific about what I enjoy (e.g., how many miles I run, ride, or hike). I wanted to be clear that for me, a "bike ride" didn't mean a couple of times around the block.
Shawn - we aren't all like that! This past weekend of camping in Shenanoah saw me do about 10 miles of hiking and a 16 mile bike ride. It was great getting the tent out for the first time this year. My shorter bike rides (that I can do after work before it gets dark), are about 12 miles, and I try to do 20-30 miles on Saturday mornings...

Sorry, back on topic - any luck so far Oldbabe? I tried match.com before and didn't have any luck. Right now I'm in a mode of "not looking"...but I might try it again if I am still unattached in 2009 (I gave myself a reprieve from thinking about dating for this year).
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:16 PM   #191
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Good grief, I didn't know everything was so complicated. I've been married for 30 years, guess things have changed somewhat, huh?

When I become single, I think I'll stay that way...too much pressure makes my head hurt.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:31 PM   #192
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Update on match.com: one guy I wrote to replied but several things he wrote set off warning bells. Then he changed his profile to more closely fit some things in my profile. Weird! Needless to say, I broke off communication with him.

Wrote to several men who never replied.

Received several winks from younger men in various states not near Colorado even though my profile says I'm just looking within 20 miles.
No other communications.

eharmony update: matched with five men. Immediately eliminated four. Sent questions to #1 five days ago. No reply so far.

Conclusion: Not exactly a very exciting, or even very interesting, process so far. Can't say that I'm motivated to spend much time online perusing more profiles.

Dex: I get you about the word "elder". I'm not enthusiastic about "elder" anything.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:44 PM   #193
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Reading Deborah Tannen's You Just Don't Understand years ago was like a revelation to me. It's about the different ways male/females communicate and the goals they have, differences seen at toddler stage.
Not everyone is 100% genetically male or female.

Not everyone is 100% physically male or female.

Not everyone is 100% heterosexual or homosexual.

Not everyone is 100% male or female in communication methods or goals or other secondary/tertiary gender traits.

And none of the above are necessarily linked with each other.

I think one of the great things about the WWW is that people can realize that they are not alone: there are heterosexual males who do not care about professional sports teams, there are homosexual males who are lousy cooks, there are heterosexual women who do not want to have children, there are women who do not care for fashion or jewelry or shoes, there are men whose preference in cars is a high MPG econobox...

Rant over.


Quote:
Good grief, I didn't know everything was so complicated. I've been married for 30 years, guess things have changed somewhat, huh?

When I become single, I think I'll stay that way...too much pressure makes my head hurt.
Too much like work.
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:17 PM   #194
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Not everyone is 100% genetically male or female.

Not everyone is 100% physically male or female.

Not everyone is 100% heterosexual or homosexual.

Not everyone is 100% male or female in communication methods or goals or other secondary/tertiary gender traits.

And none of the above are necessarily linked with each other.
Boy (or girl), now I'm really confused on how to write a profile for myself.

"I think I'm am primarilty a genetic male, physically look like a male, over 50% sure I'm hetersexual, communicate like a guy/gal with male overtones. Looking for a warm body of the female persuation that can help me figure it all out."
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:24 PM   #195
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"Genetic male (***** only), seeking genetic female (with **** and a ******, no ***** please) for mutually beneficial relationship. I do laundry, like to cook, do not like watching TV. Outdoors good, but let's not overdue it. Looking for a partner who enjoys long walks on the beach so I have more alone time to post on E-R.org and program."
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:45 PM   #196
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Here's mine:

Sensitive artist looking to connect over coffee. Love walking, hiking (3 miles max), cannot ride a bike but love being a passenger on a Harley! Looking for a self sufficient man who has a goal in life, some culinery prowess, likes to be silly and can be serious when called for.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:27 PM   #197
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Here's mine:

Sensitive artist looking to connect over coffee. Love walking, hiking (3 miles max), cannot ride a bike but love being a passenger on a Harley! Looking for a self sufficient man who has a goal in life, some culinery prowess, likes to be silly and can be serious when called for.

Let me show you how a guy (between 75-95% male) would read that.

Clingy and easily hurt eclectic dresser (Uggs, sun dress & baseball hat) wants to meet their handsome (think George Clooney) soul mate - I'll know when I see you.. Sweats easily, and secretly desires a "bad boy" . You will be a traditional (pays) male, who knows what he wants and isn't afraid to tell me what to do. But, he has a softer side that can pamper me, and not be afraid of my phychotic needs.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:35 PM   #198
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Oh my God! How did you get all of that from what I wrote?
I'm definitely not clingy.....the total opposite in fact.....have a fear of committment. I usually dress in all black.....cannot stand George Clooney.....sweat normally.....cannot stand the darn bugs on longer hikes....pay my own way, cannot stand being told what to do.....not into much pampering, except spa treatments....am a bit eccentric....not manic psychotic!
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:39 PM   #199
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Oh my God! How did you get all of that from what I wrote?
I'm definitely not clingy.....the total opposite in fact.....have a fear of committment. I usually dress in all black.....cannot stand George Clooney.....sweat normally.....cannot stand the darn bugs on longer hikes....pay my own way, cannot stand being told what to do.....not into much pampering, except spa treatments....am a bit eccentric....not manic psychotic!
Hey - then don't write it that way.
I'm just saying - That's how a guy could read it.
So I was right about wanting a "bad boy".
I'm glad you got that sweating problem under control.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:43 PM   #200
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I am interested in knowing how you read that in my blurb.
I used to love those bad boys when I was younger....now I just look at them and don't touch
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