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Old 02-05-2015, 05:44 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Today I installed this:


Amazon.com: Securifi Almond - (3 Minute Setup) Touchscreen Wireless Router / Range Extender: Computers & Accessories

and my download speed immediately went from 20Mbps to 31.9 Mbps.

The setup process with that thing is indeed as simple as they advertise it to be.

I'll let you know in a few days whether that solves the intermittent problems.
I'm curious if that would be the case for a true side-by-side test result. Speeds can vary from moment to moment.

I was under the impression that just about any router could keep up with those speeds, but I'm not certain. I have the same router as your old one, but my ISP is maxed at ~ 6 Mbps. I have not seen any noticeable difference going direct, versus wi-fi at those speeds.

At any rate, it's interesting to see touch screens are coming down to lower level products like this. The technology is pretty amazing.

-ERD50
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:20 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
Just curious if you could notice that kind of change in your browser page loads?
No, I don't notice any difference, but it's hard to tell.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:22 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I'm curious if that would be the case for a true side-by-side test result. Speeds can vary from moment to moment.
No, I don't think that would explain it. I never saw a speed test result about 20 Mbps with the old router. I did a test just before installing the new one, 20, and after 30.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:28 PM   #64
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I'm still having flakiness. Perhaps this result will help someone figure out what the problem is.

I get a slow ping result, turn WiFi off then on again (at arrow), and I get a better ping result. Like this:



The result is reproducible.

What does that suggest?
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:34 PM   #65
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If you look at the post I made some days ago, all my ping results are much faster -- typically 17ms or so and clustered pretty tightly. Maybe there is a simple explanation. Does your ISP offer tech support that could explain this sort of thing? Worth a call?
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:00 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
I'm still having flakiness. Perhaps this result will help someone figure out what the problem is.

I get a slow ping result, turn WiFi off then on again (at arrow), and I get a better ping result. Like this:

pix clipped

The result is reproducible.

What does that suggest?
Is this ping test coming from a computer that is plugged into the router?

The pings are very long. As a comparison, my pings to 8.8.8.8 are less than 50ms. I am not continuously pinging like that, just a set of 3 pings as from the ping command.

It tells me that something beyond the router is the problem. It could be cable to modem, your modem, the cabling to the splitter, the cabling to the street, and so on.

I think you said a neighbor has same problem? The level of service to your neighborhood could be the problem.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:12 PM   #67
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Nice PC program that pings and has enough options to keep some tinkering for awhile. It runs as a standalone exe.

PingInfoView - Ping to multiple host names/IP addresses
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:25 PM   #68
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Often the pings are much faster, around 20ms.

When I reset things, it looks like they are fast and then gradually slow down:

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1180ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1164ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1190ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1200ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1215ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1234ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1310ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.10.10.103: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 10.10.10.103: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=165ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=287ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=415ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=584ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=115ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=338ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=399ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=415ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=453ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=446ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=483ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=462ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=498ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=503ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=530ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=529ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=550ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=565ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=561ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=618ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=613ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=598ms TTL=58
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:26 PM   #69
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TromboneAl, can you ping the DNS server connected via wired ethernet for comparison (or did I miss that in a previous post)?

When I ping 8.8.8.8 from a wired computer, I get a reply time of about 21 ms. When I use a wireless computer, I get a reply time of about 22-23 ms.

I would reboot your router and modem, then test using wired and wireless connections, with the same computer. I would also perform a ping test connected directly to the modem. If you don't have a computer that is safe to connect directly, you could use a linux live cd/usb image to perform the ping test. That way you'll have enough information to verify if the problem is your's or your ISP's, and will be able to get past the ISP tech support flow chart.

UPDATE: Oops, you're typing faster than I am.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:31 PM   #70
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Your pings are terrible, looks worse than dialup.

mentioned way back to run tracert and look the at latency on the hops to see if the delay can be identified
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:49 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
If you look at the post I made some days ago, all my ping results are much faster -- typically 17ms or so and clustered pretty tightly. Maybe there is a simple explanation. Does your ISP offer tech support that could explain this sort of thing? Worth a call?
+1. Even on my relatively slow connection (6Mbps is about max), my pings to 8.8.8.8 are 12-16 mSec range (and this is with the same model as your old router).

Seeing pings around 1 second would be painful, and your 'better' pings are still awful.

OK, I just saw your follow-up post- those are AWFUL!!! Only the couple that are in the 20mSec range are OK.

Go back to the earlier posts and check the pings through each part of the system. If you can show your ISP you have consistently good pings within your network, and AWFUL pings outside, they need to fix it.

I just ran mine:

PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=47 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=47 time=16.2 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=3 ttl=47 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=4 ttl=47 time=13.9 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=5 ttl=47 time=14.6 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=6 ttl=47 time=14.2 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=7 ttl=47 time=25.5 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=8 ttl=47 time=15.0 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=9 ttl=47 time=12.6 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=10 ttl=47 time=16.6 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=11 ttl=47 time=17.3 ms


See? Very consistent in the 12-17mSec range, only one 'outlier' at 25msec, which is barely worse than your infrequent 'bests'.


-ERD50
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:59 PM   #72
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An example:

Code:
C:\Users\Admin>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  [192.168.1.1]

results 2 - 5 here

  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *       36 ms    17 ms  ae-4-90.ear2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.155.200]

  8    14 ms    14 ms    14 ms  Google-level3-30GB.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.70.
54]
  9    15 ms    25 ms    16 ms  209.85.244.153
 10    13 ms    13 ms    15 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.
Where you see *, it does not usually mean a problem, just that the device at that hop is not accepting pings.
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Old 02-05-2015, 11:44 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
When I reset things, it looks like they are fast and then gradually slow down:

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
...
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1310ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
... Reply from 10.10.10.103: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=165ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=287ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=415ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=584ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=115ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=338ms TTL=58
OK, this looks a LOT like traffic shaping, possibly in the Internet Service Provider's router.

They are seeing repeated low level ICMP/IP packets to the same address, and are quite likely to be determining that it's a repeated ping. The traffic shaping system drops the priority of the ping traffic to reduce the load on their peer point gateway, the place where your pings and most other traffic on their network cross over to 'backbone' networks of the Internet.

When there is a break in the ping traffic you are generating, the shaping filter ages out it's memory of your traffic state, and you initially get unthrottled traffic again when you restart the pings.

Just for fun, try pinging a machine within your own ISP's network such as their client web server. They might not be using traffic shaping between their own subnets.
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:25 AM   #74
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Interesting idea, M, but if that were true, then if I just stopped pinging for a few seconds, then started again, the ping time would drop, right? That doesn't happen.

Here's the trace:

C:\Windows\system32>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms almond.ralinktech.com [10.10.10.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 1120 ms 1134 ms 1145 ms 173-219-226-68-link.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219.
226.68]
4 1163 ms 1183 ms 1061 ms 173-219-251-216-link.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219
.251.216]
5 161 ms 167 ms 166 ms 173-219-235-8-link.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219.2
35.8]
6 1174 ms 1185 ms 1048 ms eqixsj-google-gige.google.com [206.223.116.21]
7 1221 ms 1204 ms 1240 ms 209.85.253.219
8 1248 ms 940 ms 246 ms google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

C:\Windows\system32>
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:35 AM   #75
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I get the same thing when wired, but check this out. This happens consistently: Times around 1000 wireless, plug in, times around 1000, unplug, times go down to 20 or so (where they should be) and stay low:

Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=944ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=938ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=941ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=951ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=966ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=986ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=986ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=991ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1009ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1022ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1008ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1034ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1050ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1044ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1070ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1083ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1100ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1116ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1135ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1104ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1120ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1130ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=833ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=426ms TTL=58
Request timed out. ***THIS IS WHERE I UNPLUG***
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:38 AM   #76
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That traceroute results would indicate it is on suddenlinks side, basically right after it leaves your premises. You can't even get past the first hop which is usually the gateway onto your ISPs network.

You need your ISPs tech support to investigate.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:15 AM   #77
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That traceroute results would indicate it is on suddenlinks side, basically right after it leaves your premises. You can't even get past the first hop which is usually the gateway onto your ISPs network.

You need your ISPs tech support to investigate.
Agree 100%. Al has enough hard data to eliminate his equipment as part of the problem.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:27 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sengsational View Post
Rather than pick a random DNS server, you can see how many of them perform, then use a good one. Freeware from one of my heros:

https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm
Thanks, I think. Spent all afternoon yesterday messing with DNS. I had the router setting DNS, changed that. Both laptops were set on "Auto", changed that to Google DNS.

And, 8.8.8.8 is faster than 8.8.4.4, so I swapped them on the laptops.

One of my hero's too. I hadn't used any of his software in a while. Wish I knew and understood a 1/10th of what Steve Gibson knows about PCs.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:39 AM   #79
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That traceroute results would indicate it is on suddenlinks side, basically right after it leaves your premises. You can't even get past the first hop which is usually the gateway onto your ISPs network.

You need your ISPs tech support to investigate.
That's what I thought, but if it's on Suddenlink's side, then why would the results change when I make modifications here?

The ping times have stayed down at 20 ms since plugging in and unplugging:

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Old 02-06-2015, 11:02 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
...
The ping times have stayed down at 20 ms since plugging in and unplugging:
...
Dumb question, what are you plugging in and unplugging? Is it the modem?
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