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Internet service provider records
Old 04-25-2008, 02:32 AM   #1
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Internet service provider records

I might be getting rid of my computer soon and I have been looking into ways of cleaning my personal info off of it.

While searching the internet I found out about the government trying to get isp's to keep your internet records for 2 years!

I never really paid much attention to this stuff but I started thinking about it a lot recently.

I have put so much personal info like ALL of my banking and investing and my businesss info out online and so many private emails to friends and family that are intended for no one to view but the person I sent them to. Not to mention other things that can be embarrassing like medical conditions and I'm sure I'm one of the few that has done this...surfing girlie sites!

I got to thinking if this actually went through my ISP pretty much owns my whole life!

I feel like just driving and talking in person to my friends and family after learning about this stuff. I know it can catch criminals maybe but to me it's like someone installing a camera in your bedroom and bathroom.

I think it should be an invasion of privacy to keep records of this stuff.

Anyway just wondering if anyone out there that knows more about this stuff than I do knows if the ISP's do keep all of that info for 2 years..or if not how long they do keep it.

I'm with verizon dsl.



Jim
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:01 AM   #2
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9/11!

They probably only keep records of what IP address they issued you and when. They might keep some email for a while.

Some might keep search strings you've used if you use their search engine.

I strongly doubt they've retained any banking information or long term records of sites you've visited, but there may be more tracking and analysis of the latter to help catch the terrorists! :

If you want everything you send and receive to be secret, you can use an encrypting proxy server to do all your internet activity. Basically you subscribe to a service, install some s/w on your computer, and everything you do after that is encrypted and sometimes redirected through several sites.

You can also use one or more encrypting privacy oriented email services, however while your composition and sending of the messages will be private, the people on the other end probably wont be unless they subscribe to the same sort of service.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:04 AM   #3
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Heres an example:

Tor: anonymity online

Linux.com :: Ten Firefox extensions to keep your browsing private and secure

As far as cleaning off your computer, boot it with the original installation/recovery disk, do a format and a reinstall of the operating system. Thats generally going to be good enough to remove your personal data from ordinary folks.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:29 AM   #4
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I'm sure I'm one of the few that has done this...surfing girlie sites!
No one here would do that. Which sites, specifically?
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:08 AM   #5
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9/11!

They probably only keep records of what IP address they issued you and when. They might keep some email for a while.

Some might keep search strings you've used if you use their search engine.

I strongly doubt they've retained any banking information or long term records of sites you've visited, but there may be more tracking and analysis of the latter to help catch the terrorists! :

If you want everything you send and receive to be secret, you can use an encrypting proxy server to do all your internet activity. Basically you subscribe to a service, install some s/w on your computer, and everything you do after that is encrypted and sometimes redirected through several sites.

You can also use one or more encrypting privacy oriented email services, however while your composition and sending of the messages will be private, the people on the other end probably wont be unless they subscribe to the same sort of service.
Geeze Bunny - you're missing a beat this morning. You're supposed to add "then the terrorists win" and "for the children" whenever you invoke 9-11. (adjusting tinfoil cap) How many different agencies do you reckon are given keys to the encryption programs for (9-11) national security? Isn't it pretty well established that AT&T had a room with trunk lines feeding into it so that pretty much ALL traffic went through agency monitoring filters for the last 8-10 years?
I go with two conflicting dicta: 1. I ain't that important. and 2. Don't do anything you wouldn't feel comfortable doing in church.

America! ;-(
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:37 AM   #6
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Honestly I have the same feeling, that I'm not that important.

What I'm most worried about with data aggregation is that they'll get something wrong and perhaps leap to a wrong conclusion.

Its a little disturbing to check out at the supermarket and get a coupon printed out for diapers, when you havent bought any baby products with this order and havent for several weeks at that store. Little buggers are storing my purchasing records indexed on my credit card number.

What was actually problematic was applying for a higher level of insurance that cost less, covered more and had stricter requirements. They called me up and wanted to know how long I'd lived with an old girlfriend, and did I live with or was currently living with two guys...her ex husband and her current husband.

She and I held a policy together on a property about 12 years ago, for about six months. That was cross indexed to policies she'd formerly held with her ex and a policy she currently held with her current hubby.

At a different insurance company.

The agent said there was some questionable risk behavior with one of them that might cause a problem with them issuing a policy to me if any of those people still lived with me.

You've gotta admit, thats kinda creepy.

It'd be extra creepy if I got cross wired with someone I actually didnt know, or someone with the same name, who had bought a bunch of bomb making stuff and I said something about blowing stuff up in an email, and ended up opening the door to find a janet reno zombie.
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:40 AM   #7
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My ISP recently sent this,

"Under the Cable Act, you have the right to inspect our records that contain personally identifiable information about you and correct any errors in such information."

They hold records for up to *15* years.

You're allowed to inspect your records at a local business office.
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:46 AM   #8
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I've thought about this too.......

It's certainly possible to drop internet activity and go back to newspapers, magazines, snail mail, paper brokerage account records, etc. There certainly is less chance of being tracked buying porn at the news stand than gazing at it on the internet. I just don't think it would be worth it unless you really have something to hide. The items you mentioned, such as personal emails, might be a little embarrassing if for some reason you were investigated and your isp provided them to the investigators. But, you know, you're embarassed about it one day, you forget about it the next.........
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:54 AM   #9
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I just don't think it would be worth it unless you really have something to hide.

The problem isn't really that they're going through your records to find the bad guys. We all want the police to catch child porn viewers and serial killers and terrorists.

The problem is what happens when what you're doing classifies you as one of the bad guys? In China, you get "disappeared" for political dissent. In 1950 America, you'd get blacklisted and lose your job for being a "red."

Of course, "It Can't Happen Here," as Sinclair Lewis wrote.
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:19 PM   #10
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The problem isn't really that they're going through your records to find the bad guys. We all want the police to catch child porn viewers and serial killers and terrorists.

The problem is what happens when what you're doing classifies you as one of the bad guys? In China, you get "disappeared" for political dissent. In 1950 America, you'd get blacklisted and lose your job for being a "red."

Of course, "It Can't Happen Here," as Sinclair Lewis wrote.
Think of the no-fly list.

You don't find out you're on it until you're taken out of line at the airport. You won't be told why you're on it; and there is apparently no way to be taken off it.

Right out of Kafka.
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Old 04-25-2008, 03:10 PM   #11
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There certainly is less chance of being tracked buying porn at the news stand than gazing at it on the internet. ....
Watch out for the Google 'Street View Cameras'!




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Old 04-25-2008, 03:59 PM   #12
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What if one does not subscribe to a particular ISP? I use my housemates, BF's, Panera's, USN's, etc wireless service, but do not have a Verizon, Comcast, AOL, etc account of my own. I just use free e-mail service and my work and military e-mail addresses.
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:07 PM   #13
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Dont worry. We know where you are and what you're doing.

Nice pants, btw.
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:01 PM   #14
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What if one does not subscribe to a particular ISP? I use my housemates, BF's, Panera's, USN's, etc wireless service, but do not have a Verizon, Comcast, AOL, etc account of my own. I just use free e-mail service and my work and military e-mail addresses.
Ya sure likeeelllly story.

Thats all I do email and this message site too..


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Old 04-25-2008, 06:05 PM   #15
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Coincidently, yesterday I got the new "privacy notice update" from Time Warner and actually read it completely and one thing really stuck out - They (TW) AND and any affiliated ISP's retain the information for "15 Years". They said it was for legal and tax purposes that they had to keep it that long. Should have called the notice the "no privacy notice update".
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:43 PM   #16
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Summer, I used to be one of those guys you're so afraid of - retired from law enforcement, doing on-line fraud investigations, computer forensics, child porn/child molester investigations, etc.

Unless you have been soliciting children to do bad things, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you have been trying to defraud people, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you have been soliciting a hit man to off your spouse or SO, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you're in violation of parole/probation, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you're planning to blow up some building or people, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Get the idea?

Edit: If it's you're own hard drive your concerned about, just take it out of the computer, place it in the driveway and beat it with a hammer. From then on any data recovery becomes a six-figure project and like I said, nobody cares that much.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:24 PM   #17
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So I guess if you're trying to hire a hit man to defraud children into buying a bomb, you're pretty much screwed.
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Old 04-26-2008, 08:08 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Summer, I used to be one of those guys you're so afraid of - retired from law enforcement, doing on-line fraud investigations, computer forensics, child porn/child molester investigations, etc.

Unless you have been soliciting children to do bad things, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you have been trying to defraud people, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you have been soliciting a hit man to off your spouse or SO, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you're in violation of parole/probation, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you're planning to blow up some building or people, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Get the idea?

Edit: If it's you're own hard drive your concerned about, just take it out of the computer, place it in the driveway and beat it with a hammer. From then on any data recovery becomes a six-figure project and like I said, nobody cares that much.
I have always felt this was basically true. If one is a law abiding person, you should not even care what "they" are keeping or gathering in the way of information on you. However, when does the "system" gathering all of this information break down? Could "bad information" on someone else find its way into your "record"? Of course it could, and I am sure the situation would get corrected, eventually, but in the meantime, what is the cost to the innocent person(s)? Just a thought!
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Old 04-26-2008, 09:23 AM   #19
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They're all too busy; unless it's personal.

Whitewater police pursue anonymous blogger : La Crosse Tribune

According to Whitewater Police Department e-mails obtained by Adams under the state's open records law, Coan involved at least two detectives, the city's director of public works, its information technology officer and the city clerk — all working on city time and using taxpayer-funded resources — to find the identity of a man described as a "suspect" but who had not committed a crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Summer, I used to be one of those guys you're so afraid of - retired from law enforcement, doing on-line fraud investigations, computer forensics, child porn/child molester investigations, etc.

Unless you have been soliciting children to do bad things, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you have been trying to defraud people, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you have been soliciting a hit man to off your spouse or SO, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you're in violation of parole/probation, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Unless you're planning to blow up some building or people, nobody cares, they're all too busy.

Get the idea?

Edit: If it's you're own hard drive your concerned about, just take it out of the computer, place it in the driveway and beat it with a hammer. From then on any data recovery becomes a six-figure project and like I said, nobody cares that much.
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Old 04-26-2008, 09:32 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by R Wood View Post
I have always felt this was basically true. If one is a law abiding person, you should not even care what "they" are keeping or gathering in the way of information on you. However, when does the "system" gathering all of this information break down? Could "bad information" on someone else find its way into your "record"? Of course it could, and I am sure the situation would get corrected, eventually, but in the meantime, what is the cost to the innocent person(s)? Just a thought!
Government Still Declares Living Woman Dead - News Story - WSMV Nashville

Todd’s struggle started with a typo at the Social Security administration. She said the government has assured her since the problem that they have deleted her death record, but she said the problems keep cropping up.
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