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Old 05-06-2010, 01:29 PM   #401
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I actually timed it and counted keystrokes. Less than one minute and four keystrokes including the link in your post. Sorry, but I didn't check the size.

Admittedly, supporting flash would have been much more convenient for users. Many of these apps are interim bandaids and will go away if and when html5 becomes widespread.

We can speculate whether Jobs has a valid reasons for trying to kill of Flash, or is just trying a business power play. I haven't a clue.

Ironic isn't it that the company that ran the famous 1984 advert. Is now seen as the most closed and controlling of the computer makers.
Actually I much prefer having apps than visiting the individual websites. Apps offer one click access, an interface custom-designed for the device, the ability to save your data locally (so that it remembers your preferences and you can access your data even if you don't have an internet connection), etc... Hopefully they won't go away. If I have to choose between the weather channel's website and their app, for example, I go with the app hands down.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:32 PM   #402
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Just saw this article about a $130 chinese knockoff of the iPad running Android OS.

Android Powered Chinese iPad Clone Priced at $130 | Gadgets DNA

Smaller screen size, but 1/2 the weight. Obviously I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere near as slick as the iPad at that price. But it does have some conveniences that one would expect, like a built in SD slot and usb. Guess that disproves the theory that it really costs $600+ for the guts of these machines. Good to see some competition in this market. $200 price point here we come!
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:36 PM   #403
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Ain't competition and technological progress grand?

Grand, but certainly non-linear and occasionally irrational.

Anybody want to buy a gently used HDDVD player?
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:46 PM   #404
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Anybody want to buy a gently used HDDVD player?
Seems like outdated tech to me. Of course what do I know - I still don't own an HDTV. Do people really still watch stuff from optical media?? Seems so 2000's...
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:45 PM   #405
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Ironic isn't it that the company that ran the famous 1984 advertisement is now seen as the most closed and controlling of the computer makers.
I find it ironic that Apple was the most closed and controlling company at the time they released that ad, much less now.
Being so closed and controlling of the hardware and software is why they lost out so much. They are far more open now than they ever were.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:08 PM   #406
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Zillow.app also has GPS support, so it can instantly display properties in your neighborhood.

The App. Store is an advantage for Apple, because you have content which is optimized for the screen and the multitouch UI, something which a web site can't match, because they still have to support PCs using mouse and keyboards.

So they're trying to leverage this advantage to the iPads, while Google feels threatened by iPhone and iPad apps. because if people are using apps. to get web content that means fewer Google searchs and fewer ad clicks and impressions for them.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:57 PM   #407
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HP has announced a competitor to the iPad to be released this year. I had looked at a video of the HP unit on some web page that I can't find right now but it looked to be better suited to use with PCs.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:26 PM   #408
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Yeah the HP Slate (not official name).

Steve Ballmer showed it in his CES keynote in January, a week or two before the iPad was intro'd.

EVeryone crowed about how it runs a full OS with multitasking, flash, etc.

Then iPad price was announced.

Then HP said their tablet would start at $549.

But then there were some internal documents leaked which showed battery life was less than half of the iPad.

Then rumors that they weren't happy with the performance or the user experience. They never announced a ship date.

Then they bought Palm last week and now, the rumors are they may can the Slate and make a tablet for webOS, the Palm OS for the Pre that didn't sell too well.

Their window of opportunity for a viable competitor may be closing.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:09 PM   #409
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The iPad won't replace a desktop or laptop for using peripherals like cameras and printers and external drives, etc. - it's not intended to do that.

P.S. The "proprietary" nature of Apple products never bothered me at all. That's what it takes to make them so user friendly. The fact that they support third party software developers makes it open enough for me.
I guess I would just like the flexibility of getting stuff to and from an external drive. I also like the hackability of a non-proprietary system, but I realize that I'm not the iPad's target audience. I absolutely love the extra functionality of my jail-broken iPhone. Combine Apple's awesome UI with flexibility and I'm a happy man!

Now, regarding the individual apps that have to be downloaded as alternative to Flash based websites; it's ironic that while iPad is a cloud device, it sometimes necessitates the use of apps instead of the main app for cloud based computing: the browser. At least until HTML5 becomes more commonplace. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the open-HTML5 to Flash, but it would be nice to have flash support in Safari/Opera.

Quote:
Smaller screen size, but 1/2 the weight. Obviously I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere near as slick as the iPad at that price. But it does have some conveniences that one would expect, like a built in SD slot and usb. Guess that disproves the theory that it really costs $600+ for the guts of these machines. Good to see some competition in this market. $200 price point here we come!
iSupply did their usual teardown of Apple stuff and they said the parts cost was about $260 for the base model.

iSuppli: iPad's Actual Cost is $260

The "iPad killer" Notion Ink Adam tablet is supposed to retail for about $330.

As far as 1080p video, the Apple guy who showed me the video assured me it was 1080p. Anyone know if he was blowing smoke? Obviously the video is going to be scaled down, but my interest in 1080p was to see how the iPad handled the decoding. He said that there was a hardware decoder
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:21 PM   #410
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... Printing is easy and requires no external adapter, cable or driver. You just need to have a printer on the network you are sharing and you can connect to the printer via wi-fi. No need to install drivers as you jump from printer to printer either. ...
FireDreamer,
Can you please explain in non-techie terms how to print from an iPad? I haven't received my iPad yet (it's due by 5/15), but this is one function I'm very fuzzy on. Some say you can't print from it; others say you can, but only thru a clunky app, etc. I'm confused! Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:35 PM   #411
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There is a HW video decoder (would explain the long battery life even with video playback) but not sure it's capable of 1080p.

Overkill for a battery-powered device.

Remember too that I don't think they have 1080p content on iTunes. So there wouldn't be an incentive to put in a higher-performance part right now, unless they think Blu-ray rips would make the device popular.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:09 PM   #412
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FireDreamer,
Can you please explain in non-techie terms how to print from an iPad? I haven't received my iPad yet (it's due by 5/15), but this is one function I'm very fuzzy on. Some say you can't print from it; others say you can, but only thru a clunky app, etc. I'm confused! Thanks for your help.
I guess some could say it is clunky. I say it just takes a bit of getting used to but once you are set up it is pretty straight forward.

I use an app called "print central". For this app to work, you install a small piece of software (server) on the computer connected to the printer you want to use (there are other apps that do not require that step but I like "print central" best). Then, the app connects to that server via wifi and can detect all the printers on your network.

Most things can be readily printed: photos, local and cloud files (requires a bit of setup initially), email and email attachments (requires a bit of setup initially), contacts, web pages and whatever else you can place on your clipboard.

Once you are set up, it is as easy as printing from a desktop. You select the document you want to print, you click the printer icon, you choose the printer, paper orientation and the number of copies and then hit print. That's it.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:56 PM   #413
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iSupply did their usual teardown of Apple stuff and they said the parts cost was about $260 for the base model.

iSuppli: iPad's Actual Cost is $260
That's not too surprising. It certainly looks like a device that you are paying a huge markup for a little apple logo on the back. I have no doubt that there will be excellent (although slightly different) competitors coming out in the near future. These competitors will appeal to some for their added features and increased flexibility, and decried by others, because they will undoubtedly lack the sleekness and cool factor that comes with the apple logo.

Hearing about all these different apps that you have to chase down, install, configure, etc makes me feel good about not having to deal with another OS/platform for my tech needs.

I'm with you on the hackable factor. I think someone has come out with a jail-break for the iPad. I have a Sansa media player that is rockboxed (open source) and it is awesome! And a router with Tomato firmware on it (also open source). Both are way better than the original firmware.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:18 PM   #414
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What do you think the markup is on electronics anyway?

That was the PARTS cost, and doesn't include the cost of MANUFACTURING which is not insignificant, by any means.

And the mark-up on parts plus manufacturing is usually way more than 2X.

Could you build an iPad given the parts? Lets see you try - LOL!

Audrey

P.S. You don't have to buy the apps to get the functionality. Those are just extras. I don't expect to buy any - well expect for maybe a game or two and the epicurious app which sounds interesting.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:27 PM   #415
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not to mention marketing and distribution/inventory costs, R & D (OS is constantly being developed).
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:54 AM   #416
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What do you think the markup is on electronics anyway?

That was the PARTS cost, and doesn't include the cost of MANUFACTURING which is not insignificant, by any means.

And the mark-up on parts plus manufacturing is usually way more than 2X.

Could you build an iPad given the parts? Lets see you try - LOL!
I can tell you buy lots of Apple products...

When it comes to a computing device, I don't think the market in general is so uncompetitive as to allow manufacturers to mark up their products "way more than 2x" the cost of the major components. Sure, it would take me a long time to make 1 ipad from scratch, having all the components in front of me. But if I were making millions and had a factory in China or S Korea? Not so hard to assemble a bunch quickly and cheaply. Chips and memory go on PCB, solder in the battery, pop in the touchscreen assembly and screw it all into the case. QC/QA, static wrap, toss in a brown box (or whatever fancy packaging Apple customers demand!). Companies have been manufacturing electronic equipment for a while. It gets cheaper when you make more than 1 of something.

When I have been pricing out computers lately, I would be hard pressed to build one cheaper than I can buy a pre-assembled off the rack computer (with a warranty). Those are PC-based products, not macs. So not too sure about the 2x markup in the generally highly competitive low margin electronics/computer industry. Maybe there is a 2x markup for the early adopters, which I never am. And I never pay retail for my computer/electronics toys either.

Apple has marketing, distro, inventory, R+D, etc costs just like every other tech manufacturer. Clearly the difference between Apple and other tech companies is that Apple is setting its own price for its products and can demand a premium (see their profits lately!! ), whereas most tech companies produce commodity computing devices that have thin margins. I'm the commodity buyer, just waiting for some competition, innovation, and then I can buy a 2nd gen competing device refurbished for $200.

Maybe an apt analogy is the iPad is a 7 series BMW and all I wanted is a lightly used certified pre-owned Honda Civic. Of course the new BMW will be sleeker and more stylish and have all kinds of convenience features. But will it have a USB port and an SD port?
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:06 AM   #417
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I can tell you buy lots of Apple products...
I also worked for an electronics manufacturer so I actually know quite a great deal about cost to build and pricing.

Anyway, I expect manufacturing cost to drop a lot for the iPad as volume increases, start-up costs disappear, and they make refinements that lower the cost to produce.

So Apple will be dropping their prices significantly over the next few years. Tough for the knock-off competitors to get anywhere when that happens.

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Old 05-07-2010, 08:16 AM   #418
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So Apple will be dropping their prices significantly over the next few years. Tough for the knock-off competitors to get anywhere when that happens.
Won't be that tough. Not everyone is looking for exactly what the Ipad offers. Competitors will come out with different features, more of this, less of that. Cheaper prices. Smaller sizes, lighter weight, longer battery life. Maybe some new, cool innovative feature that apple didn't put in their product.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:33 AM   #419
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A big problem for somebody in FUEGO's situation (Window's based) is that the iPad (or iPhone) is a slippery slope. They work with Windows products, but they work oh-so-much-better with Apple products that pretty soon you are contemplating an iBook Pro.

There will be knockoffs at lower prices, and even better, there will be other tablet computers with new ideas and true improvements. Look at what happened after the original Mac.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:35 AM   #420
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Won't be that tough. Not everyone is looking for exactly what the Ipad offers. Competitors will come out with different features, more of this, less of that. Cheaper prices. Smaller sizes, lighter weight, longer battery life. Maybe some new, cool innovative feature that apple didn't put in their product.
Yeah - we'll see. Ultimately who knows. Apple has proven very tough to beat on these kinds of products, and I haven't seen a company yet who can out innovate Apple. Lots of adoption of features and styling that Apple introduced over the years. Companies are quick to copy, but seem to have trouble getting past that.

It's really, really difficult to create a super streamlined, well integrated hardware and software product. You have to have the right R&D culture, AND be a wizard at manufacturing. But this is something Apple excels at - that is the high moat Apple has, as well as their extensive R&D, huge cash pile, not to mention the visionary mad man at the helm.

Several iPod "killers" have come and gone. iPod is so cheap now it's hard to see it being displaced - seems completely entrenched now. Apple doesn't sit on its laurels, but continues to improve products and create new versions that meet price points that make it difficult for competitors to get a toe hold. Lots of attempts to kill the iPhone, and now Apple is out manufacturing Motorola in mobile phones for crying out loud! Sure - we have even more "iPhone killers" coming down the pike and we'll see, but they are getting pretty late to the game.

I'm sure one of these days a company will show up who can "out Apple" Apple and an era will have passed. But Apple keeps astounding even me with their incredible pace of successful commercial innovation, so it might still be a while......

Audrey
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