iPhone 5 = i Can't Afford to Stop W&*rking?

[NW-Bound]

OMG! You must not be working anymore. You have WAY too much time on your hands LOL!

At a place I've worked, there was an engineer who constantly came up with hare-brained schemes to make money on the sideline. At first, I would listen politely, then made some suggestions, but he kept talking about it even though I was not really interested. Eventually, another engineer pulled me aside, and privately told me "Watch this guy in his work. Do you see him do anything other than talk?".

I then realized that he was taking Steve Jobs as a model, and was looking for a Steve Wozniak to do the work.

Anyone using a US smartphone in Europe or the UK to do map usage while walking in a city? Or GPS when driving a rental car?

It would be nice to have a cost effective solution while on vacation.

Like most visitors, I have never felt the need for more than a tourist paper map while wandering around European cities.

But, in 2007, as I planned to drive from Paris to the Loire Valley, in fact going all the way to the sea down the Loire River, I thought a GPS would be good to have. As I already had a Garmin (bought in 2005 and ridiculously outdated by now), I bought a European street map from Garmin on a CD. The map was then downloaded from a laptop to the Garmin.

It worked OK, but what was bad about this was that the GPS then had so little user-accessible flash memory that I could only download a small section of the map at a time. In my trip, a chore every night was to make sure that the area that I would be the next day would be downloaded to the GPS.

I cringed when I paid $120 for that CD. I think one can buy a GPS preloaded with European maps for that much now.

 

[Lsbcal]

...(snip)...
Like most visitors, I have never felt the need for more than a tourist paper map while wandering around European cities.

That's what we've done too. I was hoping to load the Rick Steve's guide onto a Kindle Touch but then read that the map formatting and stuff was just not good on the device. So we wound up carting the book around -- it was pretty light though as they've gone to thin paper.

But, in 2007, as I planned to drive from Paris to the Loire Valley, in fact going all the way to the sea down the Loire River, I thought a GPS would be good to have. As I already had a Garmin (bought in 2005 and ridiculously outdated by now), I bought a European street map from Garmin on a CD. The map was then downloaded from a laptop to the Garmin.

It worked OK, but what was bad about this was that the GPS then had so little user-accessible flash memory that I could only download a small section of the map at a time. In my trip, a chore every night was to make sure that the area that I would be the next day would be downloaded to the GPS.

I cringed when I paid $120 for that CD. I think one can buy a GPS preloaded with European maps for that much now.

Interestingly we were driving around France in 2007 too. I preplanned the route and bought Michelin maps before we took off. Also downloaded the route suggestions -- I think from the European Michelin site. If you do that on your trip you need to either store it on a laptop on more bring a little printer along. Not very convenient.

I think renting loading your US Garmin GPS with a European map makes sense. Has anyone used a GPS while walking to navigate the city streets? Haven't tried it but seems like it would be OK assuming the Garmin US unit can get European satellite reception.

Getting back to the Iphone, if it could do this stuff outside the US that would be really great.

 

[NW-Bound]

On the same trip, we also did some walking with the GPS, but it was not really needed.

By the way, because GPS satellites are not geo-stationary like DirectTV satellites but encircle the earth about twice a day, and the full constellation is up (been since around 2000), the system has a true global coverage. Well, except for the poles which have poor coverage due to the orbit inclination. But I am getting too technical.

Russia has had its system called GLONASS, which is supposedly in full operation. China has been putting up its own, but has launched only a couple of satellites. The EU has been talking about its own for a long time, called Galileo. The last I heard, they have not launched a single satellite. Probably never will. No money nor priority.

Why other countries want their own GPS look-alike? Well, in war time, GPS signals may be denied to hostile countries and reserved for US military operations. There is plenty of unclassified info about this in the public domain, but it is too technical to talk about here.

PS. The above systems have different signal characteristics, and are not interchangeable. Receivers could be built to receive them all, but with more hardware and software complexities.

 

[NW-Bound]

I just saw on Amazon a GPS with North American and European maps preloaded.

Price? A mere $142. Darn! Buy, buy, buy...

 

[Lsbcal]

On the same trip, we also did some walking with the GPS, but it was not really needed. ...

Suppose you are in a big city like Paris, the Marais district with confusing streets. Getting a location might help a bit, but you still might need to know which way was north. You might feel a little silly with a GPS + compass.

It's just that if you are walking and standing all day, it helps to not have to go too far out of the way. On our last trip we walked an average of 7 miles per day, plus stood a lot looking at stuff.

Sorry to beat on this so much. Some day maybe we will all have reasonably priced navigator electronics.

 

[W2R]

I just saw on Amazon a GPS with North American and European maps preloaded.

Price? A mere $142. Darn! Buy, buy, buy...

Never had a GPS. Never wanted one. Don't travel. Never get lost. Looking for ways to spend more, and love electronic gizmos, but this and the iPhone 5 leave me cold...

 

[Lsbcal]

Never had a GPS. Never wanted one. Don't travel. Never get lost. Looking for ways to spend more, and love electronic gizmos, but this and the iPhone 5 leave me cold...

When we were traveling to LA and San Diego to see our son, the GPS was really helpful. Particularly on the San Diego freeway system. Even around home there are occasions where it comes in handy, though mostly it's turned off.

 

[NW-Bound]

Suppose you are in a big city like Paris, the Marais district with confusing streets. Getting a location might help a bit, but you still might need to know which way was north. You might feel a little silly with a GPS + compass.

It's just that if you are walking and standing all day, it helps to not have to go too far out of the way. On our last trip we walked an average of 7 miles per day, plus stood a lot looking at stuff.

It is true that we spent more time looking around while walking than staring at the GPS, just as visitors should be doing. Inside cities, satellite signals tend to be blocked by buildings on both sides of narrow streets, and GPS often does not work anyway.

But about complementing GPS with a compass for direction, it is not really needed. When you have good signals, just take a few steps, and GPS will show your direction of travel.

Some day maybe we will all have reasonably priced navigator electronics.

As stated in the earlier post, I just found out that a GPS with all of US, Canadian, and European maps costs but $142. That's cheap!

You want even cheaper? My gosh, if I were a GPS receiver maker, I would throw in the towel and quit. They have to eat too, you know?

 

[NW-Bound]

Never had a GPS. Never wanted one. Don't travel. Never get lost. Looking for ways to spend more, and love electronic gizmos, but this and the iPhone 5 leave me cold...

Well, I travel and hike plus ride my motorcycle through the forest. I do not want to get lost. One only buys what one needs and can use, that's for sure.

 

[W2R]

Well, I travel and hike plus ride my motorcycle through the forest. I do not want to get lost. One only buys what one needs and can use, that's for sure.

Ride your motorcycle through the forest? Wow, I know nothing about it but that sounds dangerous.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, there are trails, some rougher than others. Some forests allow "cross-country" travel, meaning one can go anywhere and not using the trails.

The danger depends on the speed of travel. I am usually fairly cautious. I ride for sightseeing and exploring, not for the thrill of speed. A few times, I got carried away, but quickly came to my senses. My son also rides along on his bike, so one of us can go for help if the other gets hurt.

 

[Lsbcal]

...(snip)... Inside cities, satellite signals tend to be blocked by buildings on both sides of narrow streets, and GPS often does not work anyway.
...

So it sounds like GPS is not useful while walking in a city. Back to the drawing boards.

 

[NW-Bound]

So it sounds like GPS is not useful while walking in a city. Back to the [-]drawing boards[/-] paper maps.

FIFY.

Or you can find an intersection and stand in the center of it to get clear line of sight to the GPS satellites. Then, also look at the names on the street signs, to verify agreement with the GPS display, and the backup paper map.

While RV'ing through mountainous roads along river valleys, or through heavily forested roads, we lost GPS signal quite often, but it was usually momentary until we got to a clearing. And when hiking or motorcycling through the forest, of course I often had to get to a spot with clear sky to get a position fix.

 

[audreyh1]

So it sounds like GPS is not useful while walking in a city. Back to the drawing boards.

It's a problem if you have very tall buildings close together like downtown Seatlle, but not a problem usually.

When we travel (not in our car), we use the iPad as our GPS. You don't have to buy maps for the iPad .

 

[NW-Bound]

I understand that maps for smartphones are not stored on the devices, but downloaded from the wireless network as needed. Is that correct? Is it the same with the iPad?

Not a user of iPad or iPhone, but I saw something recently about a contention between Google and Apple regarding map applications. In my opinion, Google map with the satellite views and street views is very impressive. Ditto for Google Earth.

Too bad I often RV into areas without any internet access to look up the roads and terrain on Google Earth to complement the map on my laptop, which is quite meager by comparison.

 

[explanade]

I'm not a heavy user of Maps on the iPhone but a couple of years ago, I couldn't find this restaurant on some narrow street in Taormina so I turned on my Mifi with a Telecom Italia Mobile SIM to find my location relative to the street and restaurant I was looking for.

Otherwise, it's much easier to have a paper map that hotels typically hand you.

The interesting potential is with augmented reality apps where you'd hold up your smart phone and it would determine your location and the direction you were pointing the camera and would overlay the live pictures with labels showing any interesting landmarks, like where a subway entrance would be and what kind of reviews a restaurant has.

I believe the Yelp app. does that, though you can just have it display restaurants relative to your current location.


There's also suggestions that the new Maps app. may cache a lot of data so that you can use it even when offline. For instance, supposedly one person was using it in San Francisco and then turned off the data connection to see how much map data had been cached and he could go out to Utah.

Google lets you specifically download 50 square mile or radius map tiles, which you'd be able to browse without a data connection, on Android phones and tablets.

 

[audreyh1]

I understand that maps for smartphones are not stored on the devices, but downloaded from the wireless network as needed. Is that correct? Is it the same with the iPad?

That's true, you need an internet connection.

 

[explanade]

BTW, in case you weren't aware, you can buy apps. which will store maps on your device so that you can use them for turn by turn directions without a data connection.

They're almost as expensive as a standalone GPS but smart phone has more power and a more responsive screen than a Garmin or TomTom so there's the potential for a better UI.

But these apps from TomTom and Garmin do not have the best UI compared to other apps. Maybe still better than a standalone GPS though.

 

[NW-Bound]

Once the US DoD opened up the GPS to civilian applications, and when the technology allowed building these smartphones with such compact electronics, the proliferation of apps on these smartphones has been truly amazing.

While I like to do actual travel, I will admit that I have found myself often spending time looking around on the Internet to play armchair traveler, compared to the past when I would watch the travel channel or travel video on DVD. Maybe young people do that with their smartphones, as these devices become the window into the real world with all those virtual or enhanced reality apps.

It won't be long now until we all live "in the Matrix". Maybe I am already, but still denying it.

 

[Nords]

Anyway, the Navy guys should be happy with semaphores. What is its equivalent baud rate, I wonder? It could not be too far from the baud rate of their VLF link, right? And both, I am sure, are high speed communication relative to the smoke signal that the Indians used. Heck, wasn't that about 1 bit per 10 seconds? What would be the highest bit rate of a proficient Indian smoke signaler, under ideal conditions (good visibility, no wind, etc...)? And I mean an error-free bit rate, not that of an ambiguous message that would have to be retransmit due to lack of confirmation.
PPS. My memory failed me. It was the ELF link that could really reach submarine depth. It has a speed of a few bits per minute! Now, that is slower than smoke signalling, I think.

VLF and ELF were originally designed for bellringers and launch orders, so they didn't really have to use many letter groups to get the point across. You had a limited number of characters and rigid rules on interpreting ambiguous groups.

ELF was painful, though, because it'd take up to 10 minutes before the receiver's computer would spit out a letter.

 

[Walt34]

Wow, this thread touched a few nerves!

We have two Tracfones (cheap prepaid ones) that I use about five minutes a month and DW uses perhaps twice that.

We have and occasionally use a GPS ($99 at Walmart) but it's about four or five years old now.

For photography we have a nice DSLR with multiple lenses, two flashes that talk to the camera and each other for the highfalutin' stuff, and a couple of point 'n shoots.

But I see guys at work with their phones and paying $120/month or more for them. Lessee, in ten years that's gonna be over $14k cash after-tax money and they will have what to show for it?

No thanks.

While I like new toys it's never occurred to me to sell a body part for an upgrade though.

 

[REWahoo]

Semaphore flags, actually.

Nice new avatar...

 

[Lsbcal]

...

While I like new toys it's never occurred to me to sell a body part for an upgrade though.

I wonder if they'd take fingernail clippings?

 

[NW-Bound]

I currently do not subscribe to any wireless data access. When I saw what they charged for a few GBs of traffic a month, I decided against it.

I was a MSDN subscriber for a long time to get access to software update from "Micromush" . A single download of a new Windows version or new compiler version takes 2 or 3 GB easily. And then, between my surfing on youtube and my wife's watching of on-line movies, who knows how many GB's we pull through the cable modem per month?

I once read a blog of a full-time RV'er who did not watch his wireless usage, and was faced with a monthly charge of more than $2K. Ugh... So, I decided that when I go RV'ing, it is also a time for me to try to curb my internet addiction. I often go to places where there is not even wireless voice anyway.

PS. Wireless data HAS to be expensive. The spectrum bandwidth is truly a limited resource, like land. You do not get economy of scale. More people moving to SF or Manhattan does not result in housing costs being cheaper there. And people are using smartphones more and more everyday. The high cost is a way to regulate usage, besides bringing profits to the carriers. Still, if you look at the finance of telecoms, they are doing OK, but not great.

 

[dmdunca44]

Confession. I have both an ipad (Christmas gift from DH) and an iphone (4). The iphone (to me) has become nearly indispensable. I use a budgeting app, a shopping list app, a stock market app, google maps with gps, in addition to playing my music through the car's sound system. Oh, and I use it for texting and phone calls.

But we can afford it. When we upgraded to the iphones, we were able to keep our old minutes plan ($40 for 300 shared mins). We did have to get data plans. ($30 each for unlimited data). The ipad uses wifi only, so no data exprense the. But if we ever want to cancel the data plan, that is an option. The phones will use whatever wifi signal is available.

No, I would not sell a kidney for one, but I'd cut some other discretionary item before giving it up. I love the feel, the design elegance and the quality.