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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 02:34 PM   #21
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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But, but...Clinton got a blowj7b!
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 02:35 PM   #22
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
I guess you don't remember the Republicans Impeaching President Clinton about a very trivial matter.
Perjury is NOT a trivial matter. If he had owned up to the sex, nobody would have cared. So what he got a blowjob, few people would have cared about that. When he lied about it under oath is when he crossed the line.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 02:51 PM   #23
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.



Then why don't the Dem's press forward with impeachment? It seems there are a few Republicans that would join in the fray.......... In regards to Bush being re-elected, I think the American people took the lesser of two evils.........anyone on here think John Kerry had the answers? Probably not. The ONE thing I always wonder is how a guy like Gore would have handled 9/11 and the aftermath...........usually I get a cold sweat when I think about it.............. :P :P

Americans had better take a good, long look at the 2008 election because our last several elections have been choices between dumb and dumber. Americans can only blame themselves for these choice. The one statement I hate during election time is "Everyone, get out and vote". No, I think just the opposite. If you don't understand the issues and you don't know the candidates, please DO NOT vote.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 05:01 PM   #24
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by lets-retire
Perjury is NOT a trivial matter. If he had owned up to the sex, nobody would have cared. So what he got a affectionate caress, few people would have cared about that.
So why was he even questioned about Sex in a supposed investigation about a real estate deal in Arkansas? - This was a witchhunt and they kept digging until they found a trivial issue.

Maybe Congress should inquire about Bush Jr.'s Sex life as an adjunct about the reasons to go to war against Iraq?

You still don't get it! - Do You?
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 05:06 PM   #25
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by lets-retire
If he had owned up to the sex, nobody would have cared.
Good one.

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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 08:20 PM   #26
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

People, I have several very good friends, and two relatives, over there right now. And from EVERYTHING that I get from them, those troops believe in what they are doing. They believe it is necessary. They believe it has value. They believe they are making a difference in the lives of the Iraqi people.

If the ones who are there putting their lives on the line feel that strongly about it, who are we, a bunch of arm chair politicians who are being spoon-fed sensationalist swill by a completely out of touch with reality liberal media, to question them? since I haven't been there myself, I think I'll trust the ones who are there, as opposed to Dan Rather or some other overpaid talking head who has NEVER risked his life for anyone or anything but his career.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 09:26 PM   #27
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by retiredbop
People, I have several very good friends, and two relatives, over there right now. And from EVERYTHING that I get from them, those troops believe in what they are doing. They believe it is necessary. They believe it has value. They believe they are making a difference in the lives of the Iraqi people.
The people I know over there think it's a crock of ****.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 09:54 PM   #28
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

Imagine that! Apparently we all know different people! For the record, I know a lot of folks who've served, and continue to serve, in both Iraq and Afghanistan. They all believe in the cause and that we are making progress. Still, this is not a scientific sample, since they are not from a cross-section of all US personnel over there. Chances are, the guys driving trucks are not as enthusiastic as the infrantrymen or the troops in special operations. I would like to meet some of the civil affairs folks, as they probably have an interesting take on how things are going in the most important fight.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 10:07 PM   #29
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by retiredbop
People, I have several very good friends, and two relatives, over there right now. And from EVERYTHING that I get from them, those troops believe in what they are doing. They believe it is necessary. They believe it has value. They believe they are making a difference in the lives of the Iraqi people.
it is totally irrelevent whether the troops over there support or are against the war. It is not their decision to make, and their opinion has the weight of a voting US citizen like any other US citizen, not more and not less. Fortunately. That's democracy. We don't live in Sparta. The argument that the US should remain in a no-win war and continue to senselessly squander lives because troops do or don't believe in the cause is a total red herring, and is neither a reason to support, nor oppose the war, IMO.

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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 10:12 PM   #30
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by bosco
it is totally irrelevent whether the troops over there support or are against the war. It is not their decision to make, and their opinion has the weight of a voting US citizen like any other US citizen, not more and not less.
Of course the troops only get one vote (and maybe not even that if some electoral boards try again to disregard their absentee ballots). Still, the opinions of those who have been there are worth soemthing. think you'd be in total agreement, if their opinions supported yours. Again, I see an unrepresentative sample, but the servicemembers I know support what they (and their nation) is doing in Iraq.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-09-2007, 11:56 PM   #31
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by samclem
... but the servicemembers I know support what they (and their nation) is doing in Iraq.
What about all the former generals and servicemen of note who definitely do
NOT support what we're doing in Iraq ? People like John Kerry, John Murtha,
and the parade of recently retired generals who are speaking out ?

Oh, I forgot, those guys are all traitors.

If I were one of the scumbags who call Kerry, Murtha, etc "traitor" (I'm
not saying you are Sam, but we know a lot of people ARE saying this),
I would be VERY interested in trying to figure out how Al Qaeda etc are
managing to turn formerly loyal soldiers, who served their country bravely,
into traitors. Seems to me this is a much more sinister threat than whatever
may happen in Iraq if we leave !



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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 12:35 AM   #32
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by RustyShackleford
I would be VERY interested in trying to figure out how Al Qaeda etc are
managing to turn formerly loyal soldiers, who served their country bravely,
into traitors. Seems to me this is a much more sinister threat than whatever
may happen in Iraq if we leave !
It's probably the fluoride in the water.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 05:30 AM   #33
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by samclem
Imagine that! Apparently we all know different people! For the record, I know a lot of folks who've served, and continue to serve, in both Iraq and Afghanistan. They all believe in the cause and that we are making progress. Still, this is not a scientific sample, since they are not from a cross-section of all US personnel over there. Chances are, the guys driving trucks are not as enthusiastic as the infrantrymen or the troops in special operations. I would like to meet some of the civil affairs folks, as they probably have an interesting take on how things are going in the most important fight.
Yes that would be correct. remember the guys who join this mans american army are trained by the best in the world. That said they are now american soldiers and yes they WOULD believe in what they are doing. There is a mindset. WE TRAIN WARRIORS! and thank god for that! But to put our warriors in a no win situation is well Wrong and president Bush is wrong and scary that he knows so darn little about that part of the world.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 09:13 AM   #34
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by RustyShackleford
What about all the former generals and servicemen of note who definitely do
NOT support what we're doing in Iraq ? People like John Kerry, John Murtha,
and the parade of recently retired generals who are speaking out ?
Some former service personnel are critical of our involvement in Iraq. However, I wonder how large the number really is? If a retired three star calls NPR and tells them he's against the war, he'll be on the air that night. If a retired three star calls and says he thinks we've turned the corner and that the stakes are too high to just walk away, they'll thank him for the call. Also, when I've heard grumbling from retired officers, it has often been about how we got into the war, the pre-war planning, and the way the campaign has been fought ("not enough troops/resources, went in too slowly" seems to be the most frequent criticism). All that is a long way from saying we should walk away.
Don't forget that there was significant resistance to US involvement in WW II, including oppositiion from former military personnel --but I think most people would now agree that the US did the right thing in that case.

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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 09:16 AM   #35
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyShackleford
What about all the former generals and servicemen of note who definitely do
NOT support what we're doing in Iraq ? People like John Kerry, John Murtha,
and the parade of recently retired generals who are speaking out ?
There are plenty of questions surrounding John Kerry's "heroics"

Wasn't Murtha indicted by a grand jury "back in the day"

And you gotta love those "CBS special military analyst General XXXX".............those guys have ALL the answers AFTER the fact, they're no better than us "armchair quarterbacks".................
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 10:35 AM   #36
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

Should it surprise us that there are difference of opinions in the military? Does anyone believe that there are no Republicans or Democrats that have their own best interest in mind rather than the countries? Do you believe there would be Generals and Admirals willing to take large sums of money to get on TV nightly and bash their former bosses that failed to promote them?

As was pointed out to me ‘every member of the military will be turned down for promotion, unless he becomes Commander and Chief’. Some of these hold a grudge.


I think what retiredbop comments were meant to infer was not that we should do what the troops want just because they fight the war, but, that they may have a better hand on what is going on in Iraq than those of us that depend on the sound bites of a bias press.
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 10:45 AM   #37
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by Rustic23
Should it surprise us that there are difference of opinions in the military? Does anyone believe that there are no Republicans or Democrats that have their own best interest in mind rather than the countries? Do you believe there would be Generals and Admirals willing to take large sums of money to get on TV nightly and bash their former bosses that failed to promote them?

As was pointed out to me ‘every member of the military will be turned down for promotion, unless he becomes Commander and Chief’. Some of these hold a grudge.


I think what retiredbop comments were meant to infer was not that we should do what the troops want just because they fight the war, but, that they may have a better hand on what is going on in Iraq than those of us that depend on the sound bites of a bias press.
Good news doesn't sell, bad news does.....and that hasn't changed...............
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 11:41 AM   #38
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by samclem
Of course the troops only get one vote (and maybe not even that if some electoral boards try again to disregard their absentee ballots). Still, the opinions of those who have been there are worth soemthing. think you'd be in total agreement, if their opinions supported yours. Again, I see an unrepresentative sample, but the servicemembers I know support what they (and their nation) is doing in Iraq.
actually, not. I don't listen to investment advisors that are too young, even if they feel the market is headed the same direction as I do. I'd prefer someone that's been through a couple of bears. I don't particularly think the world-views of 20-24 year olds are the basis of good public policy regarding war. Let's wait until the brains are mature and a sense of mortality discovered. This is not my prejudice--this is neurological fact. This is not to say that they do not deserve support and understanding for the predicament they have (with Bush's help) gotten themselves into.

I will grant you this much, however--the generals and experienced officers' opinions are worth considering when sorting out policy. Although with this administration, they don't seem to be forthright with their opinions until they have been relieved of duty...
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 01:37 PM   #39
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by bosco
I will grant you this much, however--the generals and experienced officers' opinions are worth considering when sorting out policy. Although with this administration, they don't seem to be forthright with their opinions until they have been relieved of duty...
I agree. We should never listen to the young troops who are in the muck everyday. We should listen to the experienced leaders (uh some would say managers) who see it through the filters of those who are trying to be put in cushy jobs. The first thing every GOOD officer learns is listen to your NCO's. It says nothing about age in that comment. You do realize that a 24 year old enlisted is over 1/4 of the way through a career and in some branches can be one of the "experienced" enlisteds in the trench, right. :
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.
Old 04-10-2007, 02:04 PM   #40
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Re: Iraq and it has come down to this. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by FinanceDude
There are plenty of questions surrounding John Kerry's "heroics"
Wow, even George W Bush repudiated the character assassinations
of those "swift boat veterans for truth" scum.

I think the military was supposed to be all about "honor". Do these guys
even have a clue what that concept is, when they tell lies about someone
who served bravely because they don't like their politics ? What a joke.



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