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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-17-2005, 02:19 PM   #21
 
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Sheesh, these "facts" are swarming around here like mosquitos!* $3970 according to a quick call to my dealer.* However, no aftermarket manufacterers have materialized yet, since, well, none of them need to be replaced other than for accidents.* It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect that the real cost when they eventually fail will be waaaay lower.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
"The batteries on average last 8 to 10 years and cost around $6800 to replace. "
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-17-2005, 02:47 PM   #22
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
* But then I don't try to claim that a hybrid has some "value", other than reducing my fuel costs and being really cool.* And even that is a dubious claim, especially considering the pollution created by the process of manufacturing lead-acid batteries.
Both the Prius and Civic hybrids use Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) batteries.
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-17-2005, 02:50 PM   #23
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

There are lots of different reasons for doing things, buying a hybrid car, buying recycled paper goods, etc. But I do buy into the statement: How you spend your money is how you vote on what exists in the world. I *think* that is what Cal was saying.
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-17-2005, 03:04 PM   #24
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiny
There are lots of different reasons for doing things, buying a hybrid car, buying recycled paper goods, etc.* *But I do buy into the statement:* How you spend your money is how you vote on what exists in the world.* I *think* that is what Cal was saying.
Yes. You said it much better than me.
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-17-2005, 03:35 PM   #25
 
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

You're right that I'm not being very rigorous about our research -- that would be too much like work. Just Googling around.

Quote:
The Prius produces about 10% of the emissions of the average vehicle in the US.
Yeah, but we're comparing it with other cars that we might buy today (no 1972 Dodge Darts).

Prius Emissions:
CO .18
HC .020
NOx .010

Echo Emissions:
CO .30
HC .050
NOx .010

(from clean-vehicles.com).

Info on batteries from: http://drivingthefuture.com/hybrids.htm
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-17-2005, 06:30 PM   #26
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
The other problem I have with hybrids is that they are too complex.* Two complete motor systems.* Just as in programming, sometimes you can be too clever.

Also, concerning the batteries:

"The batteries on average last 8 to 10 years and cost around $6800 to replace. "

In other words, your car will be automatically "totalled" in 9 years, since it will cost more to replace the batteries than the car is worth.

- curious, when the battery goes dead, wont the car gas engine still work?, I would think it would, you just couldnt operate it as a hybrid anymore. I supsect the batteries will go down in price also. Also, those priuses look like space pods.
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-17-2005, 07:15 PM   #27
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Hybrids that are on the road today are attempts to work out the real-world problems before a full committent is made.

Hybrid technology is one of those 'breakthrough' technologies, similar to computers, that is likely to get cheaper, more powerful and simpler as people use it more.* The first computers (the Altair 8080 with two floppies, a monitor and printer) were $15,000+ in 1976 - I know because I sold them then - and look at what you use today.*

The batteries and the electric motors will grow more powerful as they are used in more vehicles, and the gas engines will grow smaller making for better mileage in the hybrid vehicles while maintaining good drivability and range between fillups.*

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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-18-2005, 07:07 AM   #28
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tozz
Sheesh, I seem to go through this every couple of months. Before you get really emphatic you should check your facts.


2) I don't know why folks on this thread are jabbering about lead-acid batteries. The main battery is nickel-metal hydride, warrantied for 10 years and 150K miles in my state.
That was my moronic statement. Sorry. Thinking all electric. I should never post at 6 AM.
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-18-2005, 07:32 AM   #29
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Economically, it doesn't work. If you want better mileage, buy a small car with only adequate power. Its just physics, kids.

Having said that, I suspect that I will be driving a hybrid or some kind of diesel in 10 years, once the technology has matured and gotten ceaper.
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-18-2005, 12:37 PM   #30
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Prius Emissions:
CO .18
HC .020
NOx .010

Echo Emissions:
CO* .30
HC* .050
NOx .010
Is that % or PPM? If so, we need to factor in the fuel mileage the car gets to see what the real emissions per mile are.
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-18-2005, 12:43 PM   #31
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Economically, it doesn't work.* If you want better mileage, buy a small car with only adequate power.* Its just physics, kids.

{/quote]

Yeah, I figured out one time that if I bought a Prius I'd have to drive it at least 300K miles to break even versus a Geo Metro.* But who wants to drive a Metro?* And, as gas prices go higher, the breakeven point gets lower.*

At least Toyota is subsidizing the cost of the car to the tune of about $8K (that is, it costs them about $8k more to make it than what they are selling it for).* That's a discount that's hard to beat . . .*
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?
Old 08-18-2005, 07:28 PM   #32
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Re: Is A Hybrid Car Really Worth It?

No it doesn't work. Buy you car based on economy over its life not on a Political agenda.
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