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Old 04-17-2010, 09:59 AM   #161
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The one thing I agree with the "teaparty" on is that they have the right to be pissed off. Our citizens have been screwed.
To me it's less the *level* of taxation as where the taxes have been going in the last couple of years. There's an increasing feeling that those who don't take excessive risk, those who made more "responsible" choices, are being soaked (and let's face it, given the debt and deficit taxes *must* rise) in order to rescue those entities (individuals and corporations alike) which made reckless and irresponsible choices. There's a growing sentiment that we're turning into a nation which takes from the responsible to "make whole" the irresponsible. Historically that mostly only included people who were temporarily down on their luck, but now it seems we're paying the bill for the people who shot themselves in the foot.

I think it's the feeling that this is where the taxes are going that is fueling the anti-tax sentiment as much as the *level* of taxation itself. I know that's true for me -- I have less objection to the level of taxes I pay than where I've seen my taxes going for the last couple years. And I have less objection to the taxes than to the deficits. If we want it today, we should be paying for it today -- not partying today and giving the hangover to our grandkids.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:06 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Martha View Post
U.S. corporations get to close their factories, move to Mexico to make a product and then move to China.
I just had to add a comment to this one.

Yes, the U.S. Corporations 'get' to close their factories here. It is a free country, right? They also 'got' to open them here.

I'd really like to see a group of people who are so upset with U.S. Corporations outsourcing their operations do something about it. How about they get together and start up some businesses, pay top wages and benefits, and try to stay in business? What right does anyone have to tell a business where to hire its workers?

And then, after we effectively take these jobs away from people in poorer countries, we can all take up a collection and send them charity to improve their lot, rather than allow them to improve their lot through gainful employment. It's a flat earth these days, if we pull in one place it pushes somewhere else.

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Old 04-17-2010, 10:09 AM   #163
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My newest favorite Andrew Jackson quote:
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The wisdom of man never yet contrived a system of taxation that would operate with perfect equality.
heh-heh-heh- I'm not looking for 'perfect' or anything even close. But we sure could take some giant steps closer.

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Old 04-17-2010, 11:01 AM   #164
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Even though this New York Times article was published a few days ago, I didn't see it posted in this thread. It clears things up:

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47 percent has become shorthand for the notion that the wealthy face a much higher tax burden than they once did while growing numbers of Americans are effectively on the dole. Neither one of those ideas is true. They rely on a cleverly selective reading of the facts. So does the 47 percent number.
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Old 04-17-2010, 12:50 PM   #165
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Even though this New York Times article was published a few days ago, I didn't see it posted in this thread. It clears things up:
Yes, we've already been over the payroll taxes/state and local taxes/sales taxes thing and, while it's true, is mostly a side issue at least if you're making it clear you're only talking about federal income tax.

And in reality, we haven't even talked about a "tax" that a lot of the poor and lower middle class pay, the most regressive "tax" of all -- the lottery...
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:08 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by wishin&hopin View Post
Even though this New York Times article was published a few days ago, I didn't see it posted in this thread. It clears things up:
Two telling quotes from article, IMO

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Focusing on the statistical middle class ó the middle 20 percent of households, as ranked by income ó underlines this point. Households in this group made $35,400 to $52,100 in 2006, the last year for which the Congressional Budget Office has released data. That would describe a household with one full-time worker earning about $17 to $25 an hour. Such hourly pay is typical for firefighters, preschool teachers, computer support specialists, farmers, members of the clergy, mail carriers, secretaries and truck drivers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Taking into account both taxes and tax credits, the average household in this group paid a total income tax rate of just 3 percent. A good number of people, in fact, paid no net income taxes. They are among the alleged free riders.
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Why? People do not receive benefits equal to the payroll taxes they paid. Those who die at age 70 will receive much less in Social Security and Medicare than they paid in taxes. Those who die at 95 will probably get much more.

The different kinds of federal taxes are really just accounting categories. At the end of the day, the government has to cover the cost of all its operations with revenue from all its taxes. We canít wish our deficit away by saying that itís mostly a Medicare and Social Security deficit.
Overall, I was not impressed with article because it did not use many stats to back up its points.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:10 PM   #167
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Just finished 2009 taxes - total $105k, taxes $15k. Canada with healthcare included.
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