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Old 01-02-2008, 11:06 AM   #41
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Orchidflower.....he may or may not have a problem.....only he can answer that for himself. When I stopped, I was drinking 12 apple martinis and a few shots of Jaeger a night.....I used to use other substances to help with the sloppy drunk factor and an early morning drink always took care of the hangover.
It's funny to me that you would think 12 beers is a lot.....I cannot understand people who have half a glass of wine during the entire night and still leave some in it!
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:51 AM   #42
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Well, Ha and drinking drivers do not do well in the same room. One killed a former GF of mine, and one hit me head-on and did me a fair bit of harm too. I am warming to the Salvadorian police response. Out of the car! Bang!
Ha
You'll be happy to know I locked up my fair share of them. It got old knocking on stranger's doors and telling them some relative wasn't coming home. The only time I had a wreck at work was when some drunk ran a red light and T-boned the cruiser. I was lucky - walked away w/o even bruises.

Hint: If you're going to do DWI, don't crash into the police.

It did get frustrating, usually not much happened to them besides their insurance rate went up and $2-4K in lawyer's fees. Fire a rifle into a crowd and for sure you'll get 10 years. Do the same drunk in a car and...nada.

Go figure.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:10 PM   #43
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When originally asked to identify the BAC at which a driver would start to become too impaired to drive, the National Safety Council Committee on Tests for Intoxication (bet that was a fun place to work) came back with a .15 number.

Later on when MADD was pushing for a .10 limit, the AMA said it was now .10. A while later, it became .08.

So clearly, we as a country are losing our ability to hold our liquor. I cant think of any other explanation.
In Canada, intoxication is at 0.8 too, but at 0.5 they pull your license for 24 hours and impound the car. Drunk driving is a way down and the biggest killer is now street racing. I think they impound the car for 7 days if caught street racing. Mostly rich kids in BMW M3s and other hot cars.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:11 PM   #44
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You'll be happy to know I locked up my fair share of them. It got old knocking on stranger's doors and telling them some relative wasn't coming home. The only time I had a wreck at work was when some drunk ran a red light and T-boned the cruiser. I was lucky - walked away w/o even bruises.

Hint: If you're going to do DWI, don't crash into the police.

It did get frustrating, usually not much happened to them besides their insurance rate went up and $2-4K in lawyer's fees. Fire a rifle into a crowd and for sure you'll get 10 years. Do the same drunk in a car and...nada.

Go figure.
Walt, I am happy to know that. And I agree with your observation about very light punishments. The damage done by drinking drivers is way out of porportion to the very modest costs that are imposed on them.

Drunks are bad enough outside of cars. They absolutely should never be behind the wheel. A good start would be jail time and a hefty fine that was proportionate to their income. I remember reading that some country does this- it may be some Scandinavian country.

Ha
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:31 PM   #45
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Look into the penalties for both misdemeanor and felony DUI. Might be a bit stiffer than you think, especially considering "enhancements" from property damage, driving with a minor in the car, or BAC's over .15.

A vanilla first offense misdemeanor DUI with no personal or property harm in california will net you the following:

- Your license is taken immediately by the police, and you are issued a temporary paper license that allows you to drive for 30 days, after which your driving privilege is suspended.
- You usually spend the night in jail. In some limited cases you can be bailed out by a bailbondsman for $250-1000 nonrefundable bond deposit.
- Your car is towed and you will pay $200-1000+ depending on whether the car is impounded for any length of time.
- You are charged with a criminal prosecution by the courts, and separately are charged with an administrative prosecution by the department of motor vehicles. You must 'win' both cases.
- A lawyer will charge you roughly $1000 to handle the administrative prosecution and your odds of winning this are roughly 10% as all they do is read the police report and weigh the evidence. Your case is heard by a DMV agent who is judge, jury and executioner. If they find against you, you can appeal for roughly $300-500. Less than 5% of appeals are successful. In other words, once you're arrested, you're pretty much guilty.
- The same lawyer will charge you about $2500 just to get started on the criminal prosecution piece. If the case goes to trial the costs will jump to $7500-10,000 plus the cost of 2-3 'expert witnesses' who will cost $2000-3000 or more for their brief testimony.
- When you've pled or have been found guilty, you will pay:
- At least $1500 in fines and court costs
- Lose your license completely for 30 days
- Possibly get a restricted license to drive to and from work only for three to six months
- Spend 2-6+ days in the county jail, which you may be able to fulfill by doing community service, which is usually picking up trash at the side of the road, washing police cars, or something similar. You will have to pay $20-40 per day to do the community service instead of jail time.
- You must take a 3 month "drinking driver" class for 4-6 hours once or twice a week at a cost of $500 and up.
- You are placed on full probation for at least 3 years.
- Your car insurance usually doubles or triples for 3 years.
- You will likely have a hard time finding a job for at least 7 years as many companies ask if you have any arrest record and will not hire anyone with a DUI arrest.

With any enhancements, a second or third offense within 10 years, or any property damage, you can add a huge increase in the fines, a few months to a year in jail, and a one year license suspension.

The days of this being like a basic moving violation are long over. This is a financially devastating event for someone who isnt financially secure.

Which is entirely appropriate for someone who is truly too impaired to operate a motor vehicle. Like I said above, a lot of people dont know that most people are at or above .08 with just a couple of drinks after work.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:47 PM   #46
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As the GREAT Kim Nam Sam from our ally South Korea once said it does not pay to drink when one has to face the piper the next morning.

He might have been talking about a hang over or his wife.

GOD BLESS
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Old 01-03-2008, 08:54 AM   #47
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Orchidflower.....he may or may not have a problem.....only he can answer that for himself. When I stopped, I was drinking 12 apple martinis and a few shots of Jaeger a night.....I used to use other substances to help with the sloppy drunk factor and an early morning drink always took care of the hangover.
It's funny to me that you would think 12 beers is a lot.....I cannot understand people who have half a glass of wine during the entire night and still leave some in it!
I thought Jaggermeister was for medicinal uses only...........I use it instead of Dayquil or Nyquil, always works for me.........
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:02 AM   #48
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A good start would be jail time and a hefty fine that was proportionate to their income. I remember reading that some country does this- it may be some Scandinavian country.

Ha
Finland's fines for traffic offenses are based in part on the ability to pay.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:41 AM   #49
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Okay, first, I'm not partying with Mead, after she pulls out the stats!
Sarah, who are you calling a party pooper? I can be really funny after 3 drinks!!!!

But I won't drive home. I have no desire to put anyone in danger.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:47 AM   #50
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We're not looking back to any habits in college are we? Because living in a frat house with beer on top 24/7, a LOT of us would have been considered alcoholics.

However, when I buy a 12-pack now, it tends to last 6-13 months. I'm not even a social drinker..........

12 beers was barely happy hour "back in the day"...........
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:00 AM   #51
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I can be really funny after everyone else has 3 drinks!!!
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Old 01-03-2008, 12:27 PM   #52
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I can be really funny after everyone else has 3 drinks!!!
You can be really funny even when we aren't drinking!
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Old 01-03-2008, 12:37 PM   #53
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So clearly, we as a country are losing our ability to hold our liquor. I cant think of any other explanation.
Are you saying that this needs to be taught in high school again?
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Old 01-03-2008, 12:43 PM   #54
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One of the neighbors came over last night and drank 12 Moosehead beers during the evening. Alcoholic? :confused:
Hard for me to judge as I can handle one beer or two on a very hot and humid day when you sweat it out fast. Lucky for me, I was born with such an allergy to alcohol that I pretty much stick to Shirley Temples...but hold that fruit!
might be a drunk, the only way to see who is an alcoholic is to go to an AA meeting.

The difference between drunks and alcoholics is that alcoholics have time for meetings. Drunks only have time for drinking.
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Old 01-03-2008, 01:09 PM   #55
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Drunk driving is a way down and the biggest killer is now street racing.
While that's certainly been the way it's been portrayed by politicians, I don't think that's necessarily true. "Street racing" didn't get any press at all until the election came around last year, then suddenly it was the scourge of our streets and was the top priority of all the candidates. It was a handy issue to latch on to. It also allowed them to pass a number of absurd laws under the blanket of "street racing," most of which actually have nothing to do with racing.

Going 50 km/hr over the limit is "street racing." Lingering in the passing lane for too long is "street racing." Chirping your tires at a stoplight is "street racing." It's pretty absurd if you actually sit down and read the outrageous list of "offenses" they've concocted.

I also don't believe that drunk driving is "way down" in Canada. Got any stats to back that up? Research I've seen indicates that the vast, vast majority of drunk driving accidents are caused by people who are way over the legal limit. You never read a news story about someone who caused a car crash, and it turned out the driver's BAC was 0.09 (i.e., just barely over the limit). It just doesn't happen. They're always 0.12 or 0.18 or something much higher. They're not even close to the legal limit. The vast majority of people with BAC's of 0.08 and lower make it to their destination safely. That's simply not enough alcohol to cause impairment any worse than, say, driving while eating or tired.

That said, my wife and I never drive after drinking. We always arrange for one of us to be the DD.
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:33 PM   #56
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While that's certainly been the way it's been portrayed by politicians, I don't think that's necessarily true. "Street racing" didn't get any press at all until the election came around last year, then suddenly it was the scourge of our streets and was the top priority of all the candidates. It was a handy issue to latch on to. It also allowed them to pass a number of absurd laws under the blanket of "street racing," most of which actually have nothing to do with racing.

Going 50 km/hr over the limit is "street racing." Lingering in the passing lane for too long is "street racing." Chirping your tires at a stoplight is "street racing." It's pretty absurd if you actually sit down and read the outrageous list of "offenses" they've concocted.

I also don't believe that drunk driving is "way down" in Canada. Got any stats to back that up? Research I've seen indicates that the vast, vast majority of drunk driving accidents are caused by people who are way over the legal limit. You never read a news story about someone who caused a car crash, and it turned out the driver's BAC was 0.09 (i.e., just barely over the limit). It just doesn't happen. They're always 0.12 or 0.18 or something much higher. They're not even close to the legal limit. The vast majority of people with BAC's of 0.08 and lower make it to their destination safely. That's simply not enough alcohol to cause impairment any worse than, say, driving while eating or tired.

That said, my wife and I never drive after drinking. We always arrange for one of us to be the DD.
An 85 year old man has been charged with street racing in Toronto (the good).

CTV.ca | 85-year-old charged under Ont. street racing law
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:58 PM   #57
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Are you saying that this needs to be taught in high school again?
I think so. It may also be that we took a wrong turn from a societal perspective when we stopped knocking out our toddlers with booze and started using benadryl.

I think the early conditioning helped us become better drunk drivers later.

Either that or maybe people really WERE tougher back in the 40's and 50's.

Oh, and you other guys quit that obscure Canadian political complaining.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:59 PM   #58
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One of the neighbors came over last night and drank 12 Moosehead beers during the evening. Alcoholic? :confused:
Hard for me to judge as I can handle one beer or two on a very hot and humid day when you sweat it out fast. Lucky for me, I was born with such an allergy to alcohol that I pretty much stick to Shirley Temples...but hold that fruit!
Hard to say.....but I'd say this wasn't his/her first time to drink a 12 pack since you didn't have to drag their butt home.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:40 PM   #59
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I made a point to talk to this neighbor each day since he was over for some time each day in his house or mine. No booze at all since...guess he isn't an alcoholic, but I, personally, never have seen anyone sit and drink a case of beer and not get sick, show any drunken ways or even pee! Good gosh...that guy must have a bladder like steel! How does he do it?
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:29 PM   #60
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Aww come on Rich...all those tests always say that everyone I know is an alcoholic.

Basically, any married guy is going to get the "A" and the "G" even if he's only drinking two drinks once a month!
Not me. ... but funny, ... whenever I'm at any of my wifes family homes for dinner (or even lunch for that matter), they always offer me booze. They don't do that for anyone else.
Do you think they are assuming something?
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