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Is this bulb normal incandescent or halogen?
Old 08-15-2019, 10:57 PM   #1
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Is this bulb normal incandescent or halogen?

https://www.amazon.com/Philips-3057-...1VPB2PV6T1Q580

If you click on more product details on right side further down, it says halogen.
The confusing thing is that all the different model numbers are all grouped together suggesting that they are similar except for size perhaps. Yet only 4 of the 15 show that they are halogen.

I asked on Amazon and 3 answers said they were normal incandescents. The other said read the spec....which says halogen. I called Philips. One rep didn't know and suggested I send e-mail which I did w/ no results yet. I called again and another rep was sure it was normal incandescent. I called Pep Boys twice and both times they said it was halogen. However the answers came so fast that I have trouble believing they looked at something and found the answer.....more likely they are just based off the products they are familiar with and not the specific part no. I gave them.

Recently I bought another Philips bulb.........at the very top of the packaging it says it is incandescent but I don't see any such labeling on the online pics.

Any ideas how to get the real answer?
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:18 PM   #2
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A halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp , with some variation in design and construction.

" In a halogen lamp, filament evaporation is slowed by a chemical process that redeposits metal vapor onto the filament, thereby extending its life. "
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
A halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp , with some variation in design and construction.

" In a halogen lamp, filament evaporation is slowed by a chemical process that redeposits metal vapor onto the filament, thereby extending its life. "
yes, thanks, I recently became aware of that so I tried to use the term
"normal incandescent" to distinguish from halogen. In the old days, halogens
got a bad rep for high temps/fires.......at least the normal line voltage ones.
Don't know if something similar happens for 12v bulbs or not.

Anyway the halogen is an incandescent but an incandescent is not necessarily halogen.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:28 AM   #4
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My preference is to replace car components with original equipment manufacturer equipment. Non OEM may (or may not) result in early failure and rework.

In the case of installing halogen bulbs some potential problems include: not directly touching the bulb with hands and then deposit oils that cause early failure, a change in bulb resistance could cause unexpected issues with voltage divider networks, extra heat in a small enclosed fixture builds up extra heat from halogen and early bulb failure.

If these bulbs are used in signaling or brake lights, undetected early failure increases the risk of accidents.

YMMV
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmsmshr View Post
..... If these bulbs are used in signaling or brake lights, undetected early failure increases the risk of accidents.

YMMV
I'm skeptical.... nobody in Florida uses signaling lights so how big a risk can it be?
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmsmshr View Post
My preference is to replace car components with original equipment manufacturer equipment. Non OEM may (or may not) result in early failure and rework.

In the case of installing halogen bulbs some potential problems include: not directly touching the bulb with hands and then deposit oils that cause early failure, a change in bulb resistance could cause unexpected issues with voltage divider networks, extra heat in a small enclosed fixture builds up extra heat from halogen and early bulb failure.

If these bulbs are used in signaling or brake lights, undetected early failure increases the risk of accidents.

YMMV

You make good points about halogen bulbs and OEM vs replacement parts in general, but I notice that (at least for me) the "Compare similar items" section has an LED bulb. Those last much longer and use much less electricity to produce the same lumens compared to any kind of incandescent. If I were replacing automotive lights, I would choose a compatible LED over an incandescent. If automotive manufacturers used LED bulbs everywhere, replacing a bulb would be an exceedingly rare event, as they'd probably outlast the cars.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by atmsmshr View Post
......................................
If these bulbs are used in signaling or brake lights, undetected early failure increases the risk of accidents.

YMMV
well, brake lights for sure............are yours working? How do you know.....since w/o a mechanical helper, it takes two to check, I would guess it is rare. The only reason I found out is that by accident I drove home behind DW and was shocked to find that 2 of the 3 brake lights were out.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:08 AM   #8
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Those are normal incandescent bulbs...not halogen, which for a vehicle are usually only found in headlight bulbs.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:20 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by atmsmshr View Post
My preference is to replace car components with original equipment manufacturer equipment. Non OEM may (or may not) result in early failure and rework.

...............................................
Out of curiosity, I called a dealer........OEM part is 8.30 for 1 vs Philips/Sylvania/Bosch typ 5-6 for qty 2.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:39 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger View Post
You make good points about halogen bulbs and OEM vs replacement parts in general, but I notice that (at least for me) the "Compare similar items" section has an LED bulb. Those last much longer and use much less electricity to produce the same lumens compared to any kind of incandescent. If I were replacing automotive lights, I would choose a compatible LED over an incandescent. If automotive manufacturers used LED bulbs everywhere, replacing a bulb would be an exceedingly rare event, as they'd probably outlast the cars.
Be careful about using LEDís in a car where thatís not original equipment. Not saying it wonít work, but read the reviews well. Generally, the LEDís need resisters (I think itís resisters) and in general, donít draw much current. This tends to mess with the carsí computer and it thinks the light is out because it expects a certain amount of current draw. It can certainly be done, but in many cases, itís not as simple as buying a LED bulb and jus dropping it in.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:23 AM   #11
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I'm skeptical.... nobody in Florida uses signaling lights so how big a risk can it be?
Well in certain parts of Florida, using your turn signals before braking is considered the equivalent of providing state secrets to the enemy.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by kaneohe View Post
well, brake lights for sure............are yours working? How do you know.....since w/o a mechanical helper, it takes two to check, I would guess it is rare. The only reason I found out is that by accident I drove home behind DW and was shocked to find that 2 of the 3 brake lights were out.
Cars for DW and I have voltage divider networks that sense when an exterior bulb is burned out and set an alarm in the dash. These networks fail when a bulb of a different resistance is changed, say LED for an incandescent.

Most cars have a turn signal relay that works on a similar principle. For turn signals, the dashboard flashing frequency will double.

Atom
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:37 AM   #13
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Out of curiosity, I called a dealer........OEM part is 8.30 for 1 vs Philips/Sylvania/Bosch typ 5-6 for qty 2.
Stealerships have a ridiculous retail markup. Once the OEM supplier is known, Amazon or will usually tell you the low cost provider, which can sometimes be picked up at the local auto parts store.

I just changed out a timing belt and resealed the valley plate on my daughters car and mostly ordered OEM parts. There were a few Lexus parts I had to get from Toyota like intake manifold gasket and brake light switch, rest was OEM or name brand equivalent.

YMMV
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:48 AM   #14
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Stealerships have a ridiculous retail markup. Once the OEM supplier is known, Amazon or will usually tell you the low cost provider, which can sometimes be picked up at the local auto parts store.

......................................
YMMV
Easier said than done. When I asked for the vendor for OEM, the rep said it was an OEM part....period.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:49 AM   #15
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the only vehicle I piddle with alternate lighting is on the motorcycle.
In that application halogen headlights have been known to melt the front "lens" and LEDs require a bulky heat sink and/or fan which may or may not fit in the space available.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:43 PM   #16
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well, happy ending after all. After weighing the popular vote for normal incandescent vs the AMZN spec page which said halogen and 2 Pep Boys reps who also said halogen so fast that I had to decide if they really knew or were just giving a microsecond answer so they could go back to whatever I interrupted, I decided to take a chance on the AMZN Philips pair for 3.50+ .
These were 2 bucks cheaper than the best local ones and saved the time/gas to go pick it up. It came the next day (Prime).

As w/ the other bulb I replaced recently, the word "incandescent" is clearly written at the top of package so I think that means a normal one. Replaced it and both tail and brake lights now work so 3/3 brake lights vs 1/3 a week or so ago. I had been led by the videos to believe that it doesn't matter which way you plug it in but I struggled with the first way and when I reversed it, instant success. Can't say I understand that........the old one looks symmetrical......
but I wasn't going to argue w/ success.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:04 AM   #17
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Did you follow the instructions: "When installing a new bulb, never touch the glass. Either use gloves or paper towel when handling. "?

Those warnings are used for halogen bulbs, because with the increased heat of the glass, any oils or material on the glass can cause a hot/cold spot that leads to stress and cracking of the bulb.

Do a search on cleaning them if you did touch the bulb.

edit: I suspect the 'easier one way' insertion was just a little asymmetry in the bulb or socket. They should fit either way.

I see that is a dual filament bulb, so it needs 3 conductors. They may be polarized to make that work, I'd need to see a better image of one. One way to handle that is to have redundant contacts, so either way the correct contact align, but that doesn't appear to be the case, as far as I can see. I would think a youtube video would make this clear, there seem to be youtubes on everything.

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Old 08-18-2019, 10:03 AM   #18
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yes, just to be sure, I used gloves even tho I believe them to be normal incandescents. Interestingly, none of the youtube videos showed gloves being used...........I should have taken that as a clue to the answer that it was a normal incandescent. Only one video explicitly said polarity was not important . It's a combo tail/brake light so there are 2 filaments.

I couldn't see a broken filament in the old bulb but could find continuity only between 2 of the 4 external contacts. Perhaps the break was microscopic?
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:37 AM   #19
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yes, just to be sure, I used gloves even tho I believe them to be normal incandescents. Interestingly, none of the youtube videos showed gloves being used...........I should have taken that as a clue to the answer that it was a normal incandescent. Only one video explicitly said polarity was not important . It's a combo tail/brake light so there are 2 filaments.

I couldn't see a broken filament in the old bulb but could find continuity only between 2 of the 4 external contacts. Perhaps the break was microscopic?
Yes, the break can be hard to see sometimes, might even be in the base somewhere out of sight (unusual though).

Several videos I saw, they did wear glove or use a paper towels, and some comments I saw said the bulb burned out quickly, and those people said they will wear gloves/towel next time. I would not take the lack of doing it as a sign it's OK, any more than someone not wearing seat belts and not getting into an accident makes it OK.

There's no downside to the precaution for a regular incandescent, so why not just do it.

edit - I see you did try to contact Phlips in your OP: If you really are still unsure, if this is a legit Philips product (not a knock-off), Philips should be able to tell you.

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